Dark Eldar Ravagers |
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Moscovian
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers  Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:31 pm |
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Current stats on the DE Ravager are as follows:
Speed 35, Armor 4+, CC6+, FF3+
Dark Lance 30cm, AT5+, Lance
2xDisintegrator 30cm, AP4+/AT6+
Horrorfex 15cm, AP6+
Skimmer
Four Ravagers for 250 pts, +2 Ravagers for 150 pts
Also comes as a formation upgrade, 1 Ravager for 50pts
A complaint that comes up frequently with the Dark Eldar is that they don't compete well with armored opponents. ?Against infantry there is plenty of opportunity but against tanks they don't seem to hold up... at all. ?Every battle report I have read and my own playtesting seems to confirm this.
I really don't like the idea of tweaking a list this late in the game but the lack of AT weapons is obvious and the solution could easily be one of the above ideas.
Some of my thoughts...
The benefits of changing the Ravagers to three AT shots would be a tremendous increase in AT firepower while simultaneously specializing the unit to an anti-tank role. ?This means players would be less likely to bring all Ravager armies which they could legally do right now.
Two AT shots and one disintegrator shot would be a middle of the road change which is always appealing (too much change too quick can ruin a list) and keeps the unit flexible.
Both configurations would be consistent with 40K (not that this is essential but it is always nice to have Epic and 40K jiving when you can).
I should point out that the reason we orginally came up with the current configuration was to match what is typically brought in a 40K game. ?However, I think this is a situation where helping the unit work with the rest of the army takes a higher priority in the list design.
One thing I do not want to do is change the dark lance stats. ?They are the mirror image of the bright lance and the stats currently reflect those numbers.
Thanks for your time.
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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Charad
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:26 am |
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I personally like ravagers as they are. Now they are excellent AP formation with small ability to take down AT targets as well.
I agree that DE list lacks proper AT fire, it is currently 4+ lance as its best. (on aircraft)
Those other choises, 3 DLs could be fun, but I really don't want all of my ravagers to be like that. Same diversity as marines have would be fine.
Having 2 DL and 1 Dis would make ravagers overall firepower worse than before.
Inventing new light skimmer with two twin-DLs could work as dedicated AT formation and it would be fun to build those.
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Rats Keep Running...
Dark Eldar Dracon
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Soren
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:21 am |
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Location: Austria
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Lance ability is quite good.....I am concerned about adding more MW (against reinforced) shots to a army which hosts quite much TK(1) weapons...... but it?s only a thought....
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Attrition is the proof of absence of Strategy
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Tiny-Tim
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:36 am |
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As we have two versions of the Predator and possibly lots of versions of a Russ I would like to vote for a second version (configuration) of a Ravager being available. However I can not say how this would affect the list.
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Moscovian
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:22 pm |
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You know, I thought about doing the two versions of Ravagers and I think it would be fine balance wise. The problem I see with it isn't one of balance but one of modeling. At a 6mm scale it would be VERY difficult to tell the difference between two disintegrators/one dark lance and one disintegrator/two dark lances. Even if these models were professionally produced it would be a strain on the eyes to differentiate them. And since this is an army built of customized units most of us are just happy when the Ravager is recognized as having 'guns'.
Until FW or SG start producing them, this option will most likely have to wait. 
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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TheLimey
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:37 pm |
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Location: Miami, Florida
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I've gone for the two lance option. I'm presuming that it would still keep the Horrorfex.
I like the idea of the varying builds, but as Mosc so carefully puts it, we're happy if it looks like it has guns....
_________________ The problem with knowing what we want is we just might get it. Robert Fripp - DGM Check out the blog at Chaos in Miami
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tarrisvaal
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:33 pm |
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I'm not sure its ravagers that need tweaking.
I'd be more tempted to give every other warrior stand a 30cm AT5+ lance, instead of every stand having 15cm AP5+ that they have currently.
Of the three options, I'm tempted to go for 3xAT5+ (certainly as most ravagers ive seen in 40k are armed entirely one way or the other), but then there's almost no other disintegrators in the remaining list. I'm saying stay the way they are.
There was another DE vehicle in white dwarf a while back called the Rampage. It was a vehicle design table example they used, and had a 'gatling' dark lance - basically a pulse version of the weapon, but was otherwise very similar to a ravager. It was quite distinctive looking as well. Perhaps introduce it as a new support vehicle formation to plug the AT gap?
I can dig up a picture from my copy of Chapter approved if its any help?
_________________ Peace? Peace is only achievable through Extermination! ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL9G0K26-0k
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Moscovian
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:36 am |
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Tiny-Tim
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:37 am |
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For a simple modeller like myself, my solution to having different weapon configurations would be to plaint the weapons different colours, one black one sliver. But then again I never go for painting prizes.
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tarrisvaal
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:33 am |
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:39 pm
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The Rampage
Dark Eldar Gunship
and stats
Essentially a pulse Dark lance, and twin linked Splinter cannons. Still fast, still open topped, but slightly better armour than a Ravager and had an energy field - which i was a 4+ invulnerable save.
Epic wise maybe -
speed 30cm Armour 4+ FF 3+ CC 6+,
3x AT5+ lance 30cm 1x AP4+ 30cm
and have them as a 0-1 upgrade to ravager formations?
_________________ Peace? Peace is only achievable through Extermination! ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL9G0K26-0k
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Moscovian
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:18 pm |
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Very interesting on the Rampage. It looks interesting and distinct enough and would fill a gap for sure. And still a light vehicle which is good for the consistency of the list. I'm not sure if now is the best time to introduce it, however - I think once the list is played by more people we can see if there is a demand for more unit types. Or perhaps for a DE variant list.
Also, I would like to try to model it first to see if it can be produced and that takes a backburner to finishing up the new and improved molds for the Ravagers and Raiders I've been working on (while the new masters are better looking they are even harder to mold). Once those are completed I'll take a crack at it - if I can make one (or a hundred  ) then I'll feel more comfortable putting it on the list - that way people have an alternative to making "yet another" fan made unit.
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At this point I think it is a mistake to remove the disintegrator weapons from the list as well, despite the call for more AT. This leaves me with two choices really: leave them alone or convert them to two Dark Lances/one Disintegrator. The annoying thing for me is knowing I could have avoided all this a year ago during development by just adjusting the stats then. There were calls for more AT then as well and apparently I just didn't listen. Sorry guys. Then it wouldn't have been that big of a deal. Now people are a little 'set' with how things are.
Continue voting and throwing out ideas. I really do NOT want to adjust any other units - I think we hit the nail on the head on the vast majority. The Ravagers are always presented as tank killers in the fluff and they really belong as the lead roll in this 'task'. I just need to figure out how to do it.
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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Charad
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:27 pm |
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Kabal flotilla: Consists of 4 ravagers or 4 Reapers.
Reaper:
Speed 35 Arm 4+ CC 6+ FF 4+
Type: LV
Weapons: 2x Twin Dark Lance, 30cms AT 4+, Lance
Horrorfex: Ap 6+, Disrupt.
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Moscovian
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Post subject: Dark Eldar Ravagers Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:54 pm |
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Decision time:
With the Raiders release coming up soon, I will not be adding any new units. I will seriously consider it though for the next version. That will give us time to model them, test them, and debate them.
Multiple Ravager configurations will have to wait as well. If I (or anyone else) can figure out a way to produce them where they can be easily distinguished from each other - and not just by paint  - then I'll be open to it.
In the mean time, I think I'll be making the change to the Ravager to two Dark Lances/one Disintegrator. It isn't a perfect solution but it will provide more AT fire on the board and keeps the unit consistent with 40K and the fluff. Charad's concern that the unit will take a hit on firepower I disagree with, HOWEVER I reduced the price on the formation and its upgrade anyway. 250 for 4, 400 for 6 aren't bad at all. 8 AT 5+ lance shots will most certainly get the attention of your opponent, especially when coupled with a crossfire or coming out of a Wraithgate. If that doesn't work, 12 shots will. 
Soren, your concern is heard and noted. I honestly don't see it unbalancing the list at this time though. The Dark Eldar win about 25% of their games (that is pretty optimistic actually) so this change plus some others I've tinkered with are about to be posted. Stay tuned.
Thanks, all, for the feedback.
_________________ author of Syncing Forward and other stories...It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.
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