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3k Eldar vs IG
Chroma
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:13 pm 
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(dptdexys @ Jan. 25 2008,18:12)
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Hi Tim (not sure if you did this without taking an initiative roll but have seen others do it at tournaments)
Even if you are taking a hold as your action (not allowed in the rulebook,it lists the actions that can be chosen) you have to make an initiative roll and risk taking the BM.

Yep, this is the process for taking an "Action":

There are three steps to carrying out an action:

I ? Nominate a formation.

II? Declare which action it will carry out.

III? The formation must then pass an action test to see ifit carries out the action successfully.

There is no option to *not* take the test and "hold" instead... you declare the action the formation is taking *before* the die-roll... so, you could do "Hold" -> fail roll -> Hold with +1BM, but not just "Hold".

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Emperors Shadow
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:37 pm 
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(dptdexys @ Jan. 25 2008,18:12)
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Even if you are taking a hold as your action (not allowed in the rulebook,it lists the actions that can be chosen)

i can't seem to find where it says in the rule book your not allowed to take a hold action unless you fail an action test it says this is the only action allowed to a formation that fails an action test but it doesn't say you are not allowed to take a hold action if you pass an activation test.
Tim you have done a really good job on the report so much so i think you should do the next one aswell.

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Dave
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:32 pm 
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What would be the reason to taking a hold action when you passed an action test?

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dptdexys
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:39 pm 
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(Emperors Shadow @ Jan. 26 2008,19:37)
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(dptdexys @ Jan. 25 2008,18:12)
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Even if you are taking a hold as your action (not allowed in the rulebook,it lists the actions that can be chosen)

i can't seem to find where it says in the rule book your not allowed to take a hold action unless you fail an action test it says this is the only action allowed to a formation that fails an action test but it doesn't say you are not allowed to take a hold action if you pass an activation test.

Having re-read the rule (a few times) it doesn't say you cannot take a hold action but why would you want to nominate hold as an action when with a marshall action (for same risk as rolling for hold) a player could do 2 things instead of one.Even if the player only wants to remove BMs without moving or shooting there isn't a need to nominate hold as an action.

As I stated in the first post,I didn't know if the action was rolled for or even if hold was stated as an acton or if it was taken for failing an action as it wasn't clear wether it was or not in Tims report.I apologise if it came across that way.


My original post wasn't meant to imply anything wrong in the game reported on.I only brought this up because I have seen players at tournaments have formations take hold actions and not roll for them,to me thats very unsporting especially (also for reasons stated in 1st post on the subject|) as for a hold action you can move,shoot or re-group.This could mean a player taking a hold and shooting without any penalty normal under the rules for hold.

This was more to clarify that players cannot say a formation will hold and do so at no risk to their formation.
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Ginger
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:50 am 
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(Mephiston @ Jan. 25 2008,18:41)
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This brings up the question over formations that are on overwatch from a previous turn. Can you select the formation and chose to stay on overwatch without rolling, effectively passing your turn, or do you have to reroll to enter overwatch again?

And shouldn't you always have to roll as if you fail you can't retain either?

This has been debated before in both forums, and there are now two answers. Under the original rules this was the response in the SG forums. The answer stems from a combination of 1.6.1 and 1.10:-
In 1.10 OVERWATCH, you are explicitely allowed to retain OW into the next turn, where you have the choice of using it to shoot or of attempting a new activation. However, if the formation is the last one that has not activated, then 1.6.1 kicks in forcing the formation to test to activate - even if that is to attempt another OW ?activation.

However, there is a proposed revision in the Handbook to allow a formation to remain on OW indefinitely by the addition of this sentence:- ?If the formation hasn't fired by the end of the turn, then they can remain on Overwatch into the following turn.


There is another proposed but controversial change, (which I am in favour) allowing up to two garrison formations to start on OW to permit some defence against high strategy air assault / planetfalling armies.

However I strongly dislike this Indefinite OW, both because it goes against a key concept in 1.6.1, and also specifically it allows Orks to set-up garrisons that remain on OW which is against their racial character, and finally because it was unnecessary IMHO.

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Ginger
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:04 am 
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To Reinforce what dptdexys (and Chroma) says, 1.6.1 mandates that every formation must attempt to activate each turn :-1.6.1 Actions
To carry out an action, first nominate an unbroken formation and then choose an action for it to carry out. The actions that can be chosen are listed as follows. Note that you must activate a formation if you can, you can?t choose to ?pass? unless you have no choice in the matter. Also note that a formation may only be activated once per Action phase.

Note - This also applies to off-table formations, however there are ways to allow them to remain off-table :-
- Aircraft (and air transports carrying troops) may "Stand-down"
- Eldar (and Necrons?) may take a marshall activation, which if they fail, becomes a hold
- Teleporters may elect not to arrive at the start of a turn, and Spacecraft may be defined to arrive in a later turn. In both cases, they cannot then activate during the turn.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: 3k Eldar vs IG
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:47 pm 
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An interesting evolution to the discussion. I adviced ES that he could Hold instead of rolling for an activation as this was automatically passed, the same as Standing Down. In the situation that we were in ES could have Marshalled and afforded to fail the action and then removed BMs.

Will have to spend some time re-reading the rule book on this.

ES, before you complitment me too much you should have a go at writing first :)

Tim

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