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Streamlined titan list
Ilushia
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:42 pm 
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For Knights Paladin how about this...


Knight Paladin.
Type: AV. Move: 25cm. Sv: 4+. CC: 4+. FF: 4+.
Weapons/range/firepower/notes
Knight Cannon/45cm/4+ AP 4+ AT.
Autocannon/45cm/5+ AP 6+ AT.
Knight Sword/Melee/Assault/+1 EA, MW.
Knight Lance/Melee/Assault/+1 EA, First Strike.
Notes: Walker, Reinforced Armor, Knight Shield.

Knight Shield: Knights are shielded by less powerful versions of the mighty Void Shields around titans. These give them a 5+ save, taken exactly as an invulnerable save is. This save is not allowed against melee attacks or when suffering from crossfire.

Cost: 5 for 325 points.

This would work pretty well, I think, with Init 2+. They've got stats pretty comparable with a Leman Russ, I like them as non-WEs as it lets their 'extra' attacks spill over into the main unit, and they never need to worry about not being able to use extra FF attacks as they don't have any! They're faster then a Russ, but not as well armed at range, cost the same amount and have the same SR. Not sure how many people will like them, and the autocannon may be a little excessive, but I think they'd work pretty well as a forward assault element. More assaulty then warhounds, much less shooty. Less assaulty then a tricked out assault Reaver, even with 5 of 'em.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:50 pm 
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What'd be wrong with simply giving them a single Void shield?

Giving them a 5+ Invulnerable save leads to oddities, like being able to save against TK weaponry.




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:54 pm 
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The problem with a void shield is it comes back every turn, and with only 1 hit each they'd functionally require being hit 6 times before you'd actually start taking armor saves at all. And then next turn they'd all get their void shields BACK and be able to do it again! You'd need ~10 hits to kill one on average. As opposed to 6 hits with my proposal.

As for saving against TK weapons: Why's that odd? A marine commander can save against a volcano cannon then a Knight certainly ought to be able to! Plus  you've got a 2/3 chance to wipe one out in a single shot. A Warhound can eat a VC shot and rarely care about it (1/3 chance to do a single point of damage to it). And any larger titan will require several VC shots to do any damage at all to 'em unless you drop shields first. If you wanna make TK weapons particularly MORE nasty against them then they already are make them save against each TK damage individually instead of the shot as a whole (personally I'd advocate that approach to ALL saves against TK weapons except Eldar Holofields, really, but that's just me.)
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:00 pm 
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As for saving against TK weapons: Why's that odd?


Because Titans definitively lose their shields to Deathstrike attacks. Or Volcano Cannon strikes.

Your Knights are more survivable than Titans against TK weaponry... significantly so.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:15 pm 
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E&Cs void shield proposal would be fine if the Knights were single units but when you can have six in a formation it means six void shields returning every end phase in one formation,thats why the knight shield came about in the first place.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:20 pm 
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So then you don't give them shields at all.

Having a 5+ save against TK weaponry on a Knight-sized unit is not justifiable.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:32 pm 
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But it is justifiable for a 6+ save on an infantry-sized unit? Invulnerable saves working against TK attacks at all seems silly to me. But hey. The other thing is they really aren't. A Volcano Cannon has a 2/3 chance to kill a knight outright. Against a warhound with stripped shields it  has a 1/3 chance to kill it and a 2/3 chance to leave it alive (if battered). Against one with shields up it won't do anything 2/3 of the time and 1/3 to injure ti slightly. Against a Reaver or Warlord all it'll do is strip shields. Realistically they're less survivable against single TK strikes, maybe slightly more so against multiple TK strikes but not a lot more so. Actually it's non-TK strikes  I think they might be too durable against. And as I said if you think they're too good against TK we can make it 'save for each point of damage inflicted' so that they'd have to save D6 times against a deathstrike and any faliure kills them.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:15 pm 
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The infantry hide in a foxhole to avoid TK weapons. :)

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wargame_insomniac
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:39 am 
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I would prefer some form of invulnerable save rather than 1 void shield. Less new special rules.

Cheers

James

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Streamlined titan list
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:01 am 
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I have made a new thread for knights as I know they can consume all before them. Thread.

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