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[Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:59 pm 
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Why not? There are several walking around the battlefield (if you have them in the list). However they cannot do much as they are killed by enemy when getting too close. Only when there is Synapse units around they become dangerous to trained soldiers.


Because it's a big stretch to say 'oh there was an extra Hierodule here all along, your soldiers didn't see it, sorry.

Plus it looks silly on the battlefield when a Heirodule just pops into existence.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:14 pm 
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(Hena @ Nov. 12 2007,11:51)
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That is different. The effect of buying large formation is completely different from swarms growing slowly back. The army feel would be IMO ruined if swarm were just bigger.

Well I think that feel would be better. :)

At least in the receiving end. I hate to play against Tyranids. Main reason is not that they are or are not overpowered, I hate them because they dont follow any rules that every other army have: Spawning, no breaking, no blastmarkers...

It's not the same. There is 4 difference Carnifexes. However only one can exists at any given time. The costing is done by having severely limited things. Practically no firing. No transports. No aircrafts. Dying without synapses...


Ok. Pay for 4 carnifex then, just like everybody else.

Practically no firing... :D (That might have changed after last time I played against tyranids, but in the past they have not had any problems with artillery (which is shooting)).

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:21 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 12 2007,11:59)
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Because it's a big stretch to say 'oh there was an extra Hierodule here all along, your soldiers didn't see it, sorry.

Plus it looks silly on the battlefield when a Heirodule just pops into existence.

I think that that goes with everything bigger than gaunt. :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:02 pm 
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Except Hierodules never just lay down and die in an uncoordinated manner like you suggest Hena; They would fight and kill in an efficient (If instinctive) manner.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:08 pm 
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(Nicodemus @ Nov. 12 2007,12:14)
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I hate them because they dont follow any rules that every other army have: Spawning, no breaking, no blastmarkers...

Have you even read/played the lastest list Nicodemus?

Tyranids *do* get Blast markers, they *do* "break", in their own fashion, and "spawning" is one of th hallmarks of the race, so of course no other army has it!  *laugh*  Necrons come close though

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:35 pm 
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(Chroma @ Nov. 12 2007,13:08)
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Tyranids *do* get Blast markers, they *do* "break", in their own fashion, and "spawning" is one of th hallmarks of the race, so of course no other army has it! ?*laugh* ?Necrons come close though

So they dont have any special rules for blastmarkers, supression, rallying, breaking etc?  :glare:

Hallmark or not, it still feels stupid.

Necrons cant spawn their warengines in totally differend place in gametable. And they have fluffy reason to be able to bring their dead back, tyranids dont. (But necrons to necron topic)


@Hena: Ok, there is some lumbering monster wandering in battlezone, why did nobody kill it before it had opportunity to join forces with Synapse, why does it not have miniature to represent itself like everybody else? Why stompas cant do it? Nah, wont work.


I think the main problem with these fan-lists is that they try to invent the wheel again. If something just dont work with basic rules it probably is something not worth doing. Only in the biggest need should new rules be made. Tyranids are specialrules-o-rama, and I think it is bad for them, not good.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:43 pm 
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(Ilushia @ Nov. 11 2007,07:29)
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Ya know, I do see one potential issue with this rule. That being: Formations with large rally modifiers (needing, say, 4+ to rally) are always going to generate fairly large numbers of spawning points if they generate any at all.

Actually, that's a misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the rules for Rallying; you never need a "4+" to rally, it's just a short-hand, the Rally modifiers are penalties to your roll, so "-2 for Broken" means, when your roll a "4", the value of it is only a "2"... that rallies Marines, but not Orks.

For Hena's proposal, you take your Rally test "result", so an instinctive swarm near the enemy can get a maximum roll of "3" (-2 for instinctive, -1 for enemy nearby), so that's only 1 or 2 spawning points max from the roll.

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Nicodemus
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:52 pm 
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(Hena @ Nov. 12 2007,13:49)
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But just out curiosity. How many people know how easily Elephants move in forests in southeast asia?

If it is LV it could get killed with dangerous terrain... If it is infantry it gets coversave, -1 from cover to hitting and you could not see it if it is deeper than 10 cm in forest...


Tyranids on the other hand are invincible and invisible even without forest. :)




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:54 pm 
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@E&C
Sure they (the Tyranid critters) can and will fight, but not in a cohesive manner to endanger entire formations. Epic is not about single individuals, but about entire force. Sure one Hierodule is nasty, but unless controlled by synapse critters, It can't function well enough to seriously hurt a fighting force.


Find me one background story where the Tyranids are doing anything other than hybernating to corroborate that statement, because to me that just rings like a personal opinion.

But just out curiosity. How many people know how easily Elephants move in forests in southeast asia?

I'd imagine pretty easily.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:08 pm 
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They emerge out of forests, flatten the crops and a few houses, and go back in.

A bit like Lictors really.

And they move faster than FW tanks.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Pre-release 8.5] Spawning
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:48 pm 
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A Carnifex is the size of an elephant.

A Hierodule is the size of a T-Rex.


I'm okay with the abstraction for the most part, but Hierodules popping into existence in the middle of open ground is just odd.

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