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BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:55 pm 
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Apologies, I forgot my camera for this one.  You guys do get some spiffy OOorg Draw pictures though! I know, I know.  Contain yourselves.

Here are the army lists, DS's Titan Legions didn't change much. He swapped out the Volcano Cannon on the Reaver for another Gatling Blaster.  I tweaked my list a bit to get my new Carnifex and Zoanthropes in there.  Commentary on the Phase III list to follow.

One note, because I wanted to use all of my shiny new fexes and thropes DS agreed to allow me field them at their old 8.3 cost, so I didn't have to take only 3 each.

Dave's Phase III Tryanid Assault army list

Attack Swarm - 380
   1 Hive Tyrant, 4 Carnifex, 4 Zoanthropes
Assault Swarm 1 - 350
   3 Warriors, 8 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts
Assault Swarm 2 - 350
   3 Warriors, 8 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts
Assault Swarm 3 - 350
   3 Warriors, 8 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts
Assault Swarm 4 - 350
   3 Warriors, 8 Termagants, 4 Hormagaunts
Assault Swarm 5 - 330
   3 Warriors, 6 Biovores
Genestealer Swarm - 200
   8 Genestealers
Hive Ship - 300
39 Spore Pods - 390

7(8)/3000

Synapse: 850 < 1000
Indepdent: 200 < 1500
Supprt: 690 < 750
Common: 800 > 750
Uncommon: 460 < 750

BTS: 9 Synapse

Dwarf Supreme's Titan Legions army list

Reaver Titam - 650
   1 Reaver with Gatling Blasters and Multiple Rocket Launcher
Warhound Pack 1 - 500
   2 Warhounds with Vulcan Mega Bolters and Turbolaser Destructors
Warhound Pack 2 - 500
   2 Warhounds with Vulcan Mega Bolters and Turbolaser Destructors
Cataphract Cohort - 350
   6 Leman Russ
Skitarii Cohort - 250
   6 Skitarii units, 3 Chimera, Skitarii Tribune, 1 Chimera
Paladin Household - 250
   3 Paladins
Castellan Household - 500
   3 Castellans

7/3000

BTS: Reaver

A quick note on the drawning.  Medium green things are hills, dark green things are forests, blue things are rivers, gray things are bridges, yellow things are buildings and white things are units.




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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Turn 1 - Initiative: Dave

The Hiveship enters play with the intent of bringing the hurt to the Titan Legions.  The Orbital Bombardment puts 2BM on the Cataphract Cohort and Warhound Pack 1. Unfortunately for me, the Pin-point missed though (stupid 1) and my hopes of breaking the Warhound Pack faltered.  Three Spore Pods made planet fall and completely surrounded Warhound Pack 2 however getting 6 BM (3 casualties) on the Skitarii Cohort and 3BM on Warhound Pack 2.

The Tyrant, siezing the advantage, retained with an engage action and together with Assault Swarms 1 and 2 completely wiped out Warhound Pack 2 and the Skitarii Cohort while suffering only 2 gaunt and 1 gant casualty. 690 points of 'nid support and 750 points of Titan Legions gone in two actions.

The Cataphract Cohort, shaken by the sudden arrival of the 'nids in their midst, attempts to sustain but fails. They open up on Assault Swarm 1 anyway and taken down 3 brood creatures.

Assault Swarm 5 marches through the woods to get into a better firing position and looses one Biovore to the trees.

Warhound Pack 1 avenges its lost brothers and sustains on Assault Swarm 1, cutting them down to the last bug.

Assault Swarm 4 marches to the woods in preperation for next turn's assault.

The Reaver doubles to support the Warhound on the other side of the river and fires on the Attack Swarm, killing one Zoanthrope.

The Genestealer swarm foolws Assault Swarm 4 and nestles in amongst the woods awaiting the next turn.

The Paladins, with nothing in range, march to the hill overlooking Assault Swarm 5.

Assault Swarm 4, seeing this, marches out to meet them in an assault next turn.

The Castellans attempt to double to get themselves in a position for next turn but fail their initiative test.  They fire on Assault Swarm 4, killing 4 brood creatures.

End Phase:
   Attack Swarm spawns a Zoanthrope
   Assault Swarm 2 spawns does not spawn
   Assault Swarm 3 spawns does not spawn
   Assault Swarm 4 spawns 4 Hormagaunts and a Termagant
   Assault Swarm 5 spawns a Biovore and 5 Termagants




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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Turn 2  - Initiative: Tim

Warhound Pack 1 attempts to sustain again but fails, they fire on the Attack Swarm anyway and bring down 3 Zoanthropes and a Carnifex.

Assault Swarm 5 sustains on the Cataphract Cohort and thanks to their disrupt ability (which I remembered to use this time) score 3 hits and a kill, breaking the Cohort which begins to flee up the river.

Assault Swarm 4 retains and engages the Paladins, 1 knight is lost while 11 brood creatures and a Warrior fall! The bugs retreat to the hill to the south.

The Reaver advances to the river and fires on the Assault Swarm, killing the Tyrant and everything else aside from one Carnifex.

Assault Swarm 4, out of assault range of the Cataphract Cohort, marches to a position to lend supporting fire (whoops, just found that this is not allowed!)

The Castellans march to in front of the bridge to bring their guns to bear next turn.

The Genetealers engage the Reaver and the Cataphract Cohort, and only take down a single Russ for 5 of their own casualties, they retreat to the woods.

The Paladins advance on the two remaining Warriors of Assault Swarm 3 but can't mange to take them down.

Assault Swarm 3 doubles to the Warhounds to get into assault range and suceed in only getting a BM on them.

End Phase:
Assault Swarm 2 spawns a Carnifex
Assault Swarm 3 spawns 2 Termagants
Assault Swarm 4 spawns a Carnifex
Assault Swarm 5 spawns 6 Termagants

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:03 pm 
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Turn 3 - Initiative: Tim

The Warhounds finally make their sustain this turn and open up on Assault Swarm 2 before it can assault them. 8 'gants go down.

The Reaver retains and sustains on Assault Swarm 4, another 10 'gants chew on some Gattling Blaster rounds.

Assault Swarm 3 marches and gets away from the Paladins to perserve the Synapse creature count.

The Castellans sustain on Assault Swarm 5, taking down another 6 'gants.

Assault Swarm 2 engages the the Warhounds taking out a DC of one for 1 Carnifex and and 1 gaunt.  The hounds fall back to the river.

Assault Swarm 5 sustains on the Cataphract Cohort getting 2 more hack-down hits.

Assault Swarm 4 advances on the Cataphract Cohort and contols one of DS's objectives while getting 1 more hack-down hit.

The Genestealers (cleverly held for this very purpose) march through the river, past the Reaver and grab the Blitzkrieg objective for the win!

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Chroma
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:25 pm 
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So... then what happened?   :D

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:29 pm 
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Thoughts on 8.4

I've already made my opinions on the 8.4 special rules clear, so I won't repeat them here aside to say that I find them more confusing and convoluted then these.

I would, however, like to say that I think Uncommon Brood Creatures should still be able to be purchased by the unit, as opposed to by 2/3/4/5 units. As it stands right now only Carnifexes and Zoanthropes don't make nice round numbers under the new pricing.  I'd be willing to round them up from 33.33 points to 35 points though just to be able to buy them one off.  The Common Brood creatures at 4 per unit don't bother me, I just think Uncommon Brood creatures should be able to bought in increments of one unit.

Thoughts of Phase III

Neal had made the comment that he thought 10 points was way too much for the planetfall ability on bugs, he thought even 5 might be too much.

I want to play a few more games with them, but nothing I've seen so far suggests that 10 points to drop is way too much.

However, I would like to address some structuring of the list and perhaps suggest an alternative to a flat 10 points.  

For one I feel that having Independent Swarms at up to 1/2 of the army's cost is overkill.  This is the Myecetic Assault list not a Phase II list.  I think the focus should be one drop bugs, and lots of 'em. To that end, I suggest the following.

Up to 1/3 of the army's points may be spent on Independent Swarms.

Up to 1/3 of the army's points may be spent on Independent Swarms on Spacecraft and support.

Bumping Ind. down to 1/3 from 1/2 I think would fit the army theme better. The same goes for Spacecraft up from 1/4 to 1/3 as well.

Also, the Hive Mind Link shouldn't be under Spacecraft and Support, Synapse would be more appropriate.  Personally, I think it should only be allowed on the Tyrant, but I'd like to see how other people feel.

Now, on the Spore Pods.  I'd like to suggest that they be 5 points for Infantry units, and 10 points for AV and LV units.  Drop Carnifex are murder, as they get a free ride right into base contact.  That's why I think AVs and LV should stay at 10 points.  Gaunts don't benefit from the drop as much though, as they move much faster, I think 5 could work.

This also brings me to the Hiveships capacity.  Fluff wise, these things are the size of Battle Barges and bigger. A 60 unit capacity doesn't do this justice considering a BB gets 60 infantry in it PLUS 60 tanks.  How about 120 units, with infantry counting as one unit and AVs and LVs counting as 2?

Miscellaneous Thoughts

I would like to see the Vituperator dropped from this list.  There's no model for it and its a bigger Harridan that I think wouldn't make dirt side until the planet is well under siege.

Could we give Harridan the Planetfall ability?  There's fluff supporting it (I think it was in Dan Abnett's Siege of Vraks where a Tyranid Myecetic Assault was described).

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:31 pm 
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(Chroma @ Oct. 31 2007,12:25)
QUOTE
So... then what happened?   :D

:p.

Bugs won it 2-0 in the third, thanks the 'stealers grabbing the Blitzkrieg and the Assault Swarm holding another objective for Take and Hold.

My comments are above :).

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Chroma
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:37 pm 
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(Dave @ Oct. 31 2007,17:29)
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For one I feel that having Independent Swarms at up to 1/2 of the army's cost is overkill. ?This is the Myecetic Assault list not a Phase II list. ?I think the focus should be one drop bugs, and lots of 'em. To that end, I suggest the following.

Well, it's not *just* a "drop list", but the early stages of invasion, so Lictors and Genestealers are part of that...

Now, maybe it's not spelled out clearly enough, but you *can* drop Genestealer and Lictor swarms as well.

More comments to come, I've got to head out to a client emergency!

Thanks a bunch for trying out the list!

One last question: was it fun for you and your opponent?

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:52 pm 
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I still think 1/3 is more than enough. A 3000 point game would mean up to 1000 points up Independents, that's quite a bit.

I knew I could drop them, but with infiltrator on both of them I think they can move quick enough to be in an assault by turn 2.  And with Lictors having the option to teleport the only reason why I would put them in pods would be to get them down with BMs.

I enjoyed the list though.  The huge assault right at the start of Turn 1 was a blast.  Not sure how DS felt, but he was wearing the bugs down by the end of the third turn, I don't think there would have been much left at the end of a fourth.

Another thing too, taking out battle Titan's with this list is pretty difficult.  I thought they performed exceptionally in this game though.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:59 pm 
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(Chroma @ Oct. 31 2007,12:37)
QUOTE
One last question: was it fun for you and your opponent?

Yes, it was fun. All the games Dave and I have played have been close. Just like the previous game that Dave wrote a BatRep for, this game easily could have gone either way. This means that either the lists are pretty balanced or we're both lousy players.  :p  

Having now played against Tyranids a couple of times with my Titan Legion, I'm slowly learning to stop being intimidated by the sheer number of stands. The next time we play, I'm going to experiment with some different combinations to see how well they do against Nids.

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:07 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 31 2007,15:59)
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This means that either the lists are pretty balanced or we're both lousy players.  :p

I plead the 5th.

One thing I'd still like to do is expand to some other players. I think having different people to play against will make the BatReps better because inevitably DS and I will start to anticipate each other's nuances and each others armies.  Not necessarily a good thing when army balancing is a factor.

Not that I'm complaining though. One opponent is infinitely better than none. And I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out a way to bring down that Reaver. :glare:

Hopefully we will get a game in with Tristan soon.  I haven't been able to get a hold of Mordek the Mean though, but if I do he will be another possibility.

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Chroma
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:10 am 
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(Dave @ Nov. 01 2007,00:07)
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One thing I'd still like to do is expand to some other players. I think having different people to play against will make the BatReps better because inevitably DS and I will start to anticipate each other's nuances and each others armies. ?Not necessarily a good thing when army balancing is a factor.

One thing we've done around here when only a few players are present is, put together an army... and then someone (the other person in your case) plays it!  Makes for some interesting and unexpected tactics and developments!

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Ilushia
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:22 am 
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I'm a fan of taking Chroma's idea a little further. Build, say, three armies for each force, mix 'em all together and pick randomly. ^_^ Only really works when you've got a wide enough range to avoid contradictory armies, but is lots of fun (I do this with other games a lot, makes for very interesting games, and a chance to do some very new and amusing things).
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:26 pm 
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(Dave @ Oct. 31 2007,19:07)
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[One thing I'd still like to do is expand to some other players. I think having different people to play against will make the BatReps better because inevitably DS and I will start to anticipate each other's nuances and each others armies.  Not necessarily a good thing when army balancing is a factor.

That's another reason why I want to experiment with different combinations. For example, I have yet to take a Field Gun Cohort or Errant or Lancer Knights.

BTW, nice diagrams, Dave. I'm impressed how accurate they are given that you did them from memory.

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Dave
 Post subject: BatRep: 3k Phase III vs. Titan Legions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:58 pm 
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The notes help a lot, the terrain though was mostly from remembering where units moved to and what they hid behind.

Next time I'll just bring a camera :p

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