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[Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
Chroma
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:06 am 
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OKay, there's been a few after action reports from tourneys lately, but not a lot of 8.3 playtests overall.  I'm contemplating releasing another update, but it won't be much of a rules change, more of a tidying.

That being said, I'd like to know if anyone has tested any of the following, as they'll still be applicable:

- Hierophant Swarms with more than one Hierophant.

- Large numbers of Aerial Spore Mine swarms.

- "Termagant Terror"-style Common Brood only armies.

Can anyone else think of any "unusal" army approaches that should be power-tested?

Thanks for your efforts!

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:00 am 
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The Hierophant swarm doesn't appeal to me  - I used two hierophants the other day but couldn't see the attraction in having them as a single formation? I would rather have the activation and flexibility, if they were 500 for two maybe...

Lots of spore mines and lots of dactylis... eg 12 Dactylis (3 formations with tyrants in charge) and lots of spore mines). I'm concerned about the power of this... and the fact that the spore mines give the nids very effective defence of their artillery now. I might try this out on Sunday.

Termagant terror was kind of nasty under the old rules, don't think it is as much of a problem now.

I'd also like to see the bio-titan weapons looked at. Currently the setup is rather bizzare.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:02 am 
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(Markconz @ Aug. 28 2007,03:00)
QUOTE
I'd also like to see the bio-titan weapons looked at. Currently the setup is rather bizzare.

What do you find bizarre about it?

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:27 am 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 28 2007,02:02)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Aug. 28 2007,03:00)
QUOTE
I'd also like to see the bio-titan weapons looked at. Currently the setup is rather bizzare.

What do you find bizarre about it?

It's a seemingly randomly chosen, forced selection of weapon options on the models most people have.

Eg. I have 4 tyranid players here questioning it (including myself), all with the hierodules (now hierophants) and hierophants (now hydraphants).  

Hydraphant is just CC with no range bar breath, and Hiero has all the guns? Why? It invalidates the loadouts on most peoples titans, (and also is not great tactically in the game in my experience, the slowest titan least able to get to CC has no biocannons?). However, while important this is perhaps secondary to the next point...

Which is that while I appreciate that some people will be making models from scratch and build to match the stats,  most people I think will be using the existing models, and making stats that don't match the existing models is a sure way to piss off veteran players. We should have a very good reason to do this and I'm not seeing one.

Hence I proposed going with a very limited version of the rules you originally proposed a while ago for mutable bio-titans. I bought it up in this thread here and Hojyn and some others were also in favour IIRC:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=10010

No huge selection, I'm thinking of something more like the eldar phantoms where you choose between pulsars and powerfists. Ie just something that doesn't invalidate old models, and allows a bit more tactical acumen.

Exact details I want someone else to decide upon... (you that is!) :D  Hena mentions some ideas for weapons in that thread that I kinda liked though...

I do like the ripper tentacles on the Hydraphant by the way - those are fun! (as well as matching the model)   :D

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:36 am 
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Oh, I question it too, that's why I did up that mutable Bio-Titans thing... *laugh*

(Markconz @ Aug. 28 2007,03:27)
QUOTE
and Hiero has all the guns? Why?
Here's the unpleasant answer: Because that's the way the Forge World model is... which is probably our only hope of ever seeing a new Bio-Titan model.

I will definitely contemplate and percolate on allowing a few Bio-Titan options.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:39 am 
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(Markconz @ Aug. 28 2007,03:00)
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Lots of spore mines and lots of dactylis... eg 12 Dactylis (3 formations with tyrants in charge) and lots of spore mines). I'm concerned about the power of this... and the fact that the spore mines give the nids very effective defence of their artillery now. I might try this out on Sunday.

I've tried a quick list trying this... and it ain't that impressive to me... those Dactyls really eat up the points!  *laugh*

Dactylis Deluge

Synapse
3 Attack Groups
3 Assault Groups

Independent Broods
3 Aerial Spore Mine Swarms

Common Broods
9 Gargoyles
12 Hormagaunts
9 Raveners
12 Termagants

Uncommon Broods
12 Dactylis
6 Mycetic Spores

What would you do different, Markconz?

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:53 am 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 28 2007,02:36)
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Oh, I question it too, that's why I did up that mutable Bio-Titans thing... *laugh*

(Markconz @ Aug. 28 2007,03:27)
QUOTE
and Hiero has all the guns? Why?
Here's the unpleasant answer: Because that's the way the Forge World model is... which is probably our only hope of ever seeing a new Bio-Titan model.

I will definitely contemplate and percolate on allowing a few Bio-Titan options.

Nothing unpleasant about that answer! That is fine it should be accounted for by the stats if there is a slim chance it might actually be released. However, given that forgeworld has done variants of all the other titans they have made - hadn't you better consider that eventuality as well (eg look at the FW hierodules, warhounds, reavers)?  It should be possible to make options that cover the existing models (which lets face it are the only available now) and future FW plans. Thus you can deal with two problems at the same time.

The main point is what Neal Hunt said - don't get too carried away with the range of options.  :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:56 am 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 28 2007,02:39)
QUOTE
I've tried a quick list trying this... and it ain't that impressive to me... those Dactyls really eat up the points!  *laugh*

Dactylis Deluge

(snip)

What would you do different, Markconz?

I'll have a think about it before Sunday!  :D  Note that such a list might even be considered quite characterful in a starship troopers artillery bug kind of way...  :alien:

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:48 am 
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(Hena @ Aug. 28 2007,08:21)
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Somewhere are still my suggestion for the weapons. I don't think there should much choice. Most others don't have either (only between two in general). So in same thread.
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y212973

For Hydraphant. I still don't think that it's good to allow it to have multiple long range weapons. It's currently armed for close assault (with some longer range weapons).

I don't know many people who have put multiple guns on hydraphants anyway, but limiting it due to your personal preference rather than actual existing or future models is not a good idea. Hierophants, hierodules, and harridans can all have mulitple guns because the models do. The existing hydraphant model has those guns options too, and to be rational about it,  it is less problematic because it costs more points to get those same limited number of bioweapons. Important to remember it is only potentially 2 biocannons or something we are talking about here too, not 4 turbolasers or something crazy.

Also strong Epic Armageddon design principle was that units have a high level of WYSIWYG rather than too much abstraction like they did in Epic40k. That means giving 2 weapons (with option to make each either a CC or shooting version) to hydras and hieros - as that would cover existing models, current and future FW plans, and scratchbuilds.

Agreed limited choice like in other lists is good though.

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Dave
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:54 pm 
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I think a weapon option for the bio-titans alone the same lines as the weapon options for the Ork Stompers and Supa-Stompers would add a lot.

I have a Phase III report from the weekend that I will try to put up sometime soon.  Maybe at lunch today.  Since Phase III doesn't have access to the bigger creatures it might fit your Termegant Terror bill Chroma.

Would you guys rather it here or on the Wiki?

Chroma, what were your plans for the next release if its just tidying up.  Renaming Mycetic Spores, a note on the spores (i.e. they're just counters and not in a unit) , the edited special rules section that's been thrown around here the last couple of weeks?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:02 pm 
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(Dave @ Aug. 28 2007,14:54)
QUOTE
I have a Phase III report from the weekend that I will try to put up sometime soon. ?Maybe at lunch today. ?Since Phase III doesn't have access to the bigger creatures it might fit your Termegant Terror bill Chroma.

Would you guys rather it here or on the Wiki?
Cool!  The Phase III list hasn't seen much action lately, did you use the 8.3 rules for it?

Here, in it's own thread, would be a good place for the batrep.

Chroma, what were your plans for the next release if its just tidying up. ?Renaming Mycetic Spores, a note on the spores (i.e. they're just counters and not in a unit) , the edited special rules section that's been thrown around here the last couple of weeks?

That's essentially what I'm looking at... still haven't found a great name (Love Drops!) for the spawn boosting... *sigh*  Nothing that *grabs* me...

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Dave
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:44 pm 
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Yep, Phase III org and 8.3 rules.  I'll try to get the battle report up soon.

I'll throw in my hat for them to be called Oxytocic Spores again (oxytocic - characterized by rapid labor).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Playtesting] Questions for 8.3 games
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Calling them spores of any kind will just lead to confusion with Meiotic Spores.

I vote for renaming 'Spawning' to 'Synapse Calling', and allow 'Enhanced Synaptic Cry' as a booster.

'Spawning' as a name is pretty misleading anyway.

"How did that Tyranid Warrior just 'spawn' a Hierodule???"

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