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Tournament Report
Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:42 am 
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Yesterday I took v8.3 Tyranids to Open War 8 at Warhammer World UK.

Here are the basic reports and my feelings from the games about the list and what changes could be made.

During the day I played 3 3000pt games against Chaos BL, Imperial Guard and a different Chaos BL force.

These will be quick reports as there was`not adequate time during the games to write notes and i did not take a camera with me. Since arriving home I have realised that I played all these games under the impression that synapse range was 5cm and not 15 as is the case. This would ahve had an affect on the last game, but not by too much.

My list
2 x Hive Tyrant
2 x Warriors (3)
Harridan
27 x Termagants
4 x Hormagants
12 x Gargoyles
6 x Carnifexes
4 x Haruspex
4 x Malefactors
2 x Trygons
2 x Mysetic Spores
Hydraphant
Lictors (3)
Genestealers (6)

With a total of 16 players at OW8, I was`hoping to play against a range of different styles and hopefully some new opponents, in the end I played three main weekend tournament winners. All games were played on 6'x4' tables with 12 pieces of scenary each game was on a different table. Official Rule book with Skimmer update was used for all the games.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:59 am 
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First up was Nathan and his Black Legion.

This had two retinues (plus rhinos & 1 with Defiler & Obliterator (BTS)), 2 single Death Wheels, bikes, Chosen, Raptors (Drop pods), small spacecraft, Forlorn Hope & 3 aircraft.

Nathan had an engage orientated army with little in the way of shooting. This lead to a cautious approach from the BL as Nids marched across the board to get into position to engage in turn 2. I made a mistake in placing my genestealers too far forward too early on an lost them to a FF engagement with the bikes. The spacecraft was in effective although the pin-point MW attack got me very worried as it picked out my Harridan (luckily for me it missed). The raptors came down and engaged the Harridan, Trygon and 4 gargoyles in HtH. 8 attacks later and only 1 hit which a Trygon saved. The reply wiped out the raptors.
In the second turn the Chosen also had a go against the Harridan et al. only to lose and be brokenwith only the fearless obliterator left.
The rest of the game was a case of cat & mouse as I tried to maneouvre into position to engage and Nathan repositioned himself to grab objectives and snipe at my formations.
Due to time restrictions we had to stop at teh end of turn 3 and call it a draw (even on VPs although I forgot to halve Brood points which would have made a difference). I we had had a fourth turn I believe that Nids would have won, the Hydraphant was in position to claim Blitz and support an engagement on the BTS retinue from my Haruspex and Malefactors.
In this game the War Engines performed well when given the chance, but these opportunites were rare as sensibly Nathan moved formations out of their way or left lower pointed formations to block advances.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:13 am 
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Game 2 was versus Imperial Guard and David.

David fielded Reg HQ, Mech Inf Inf Comp (all three with up-grades), Rough Riders, 2 single Shadowswords, manticores, hydras & 2 single warhounds (5 commisssars in first five formations).

This was a game of us fighting each other to a standstill with waves of tyranids throwing themselves at guardsmen only to be repulsed at terrible costs to both sides. Both Shadowswords targetted the Hydraphant before it could do anything and left it Instinctive and on two wounds hiding at the back of the table.
Formation of the game for me was the Genestealers who caught a Warhound on its own and ripped it to shreds before it had a chance to do anything. There was swift retribution from the Reg HQ which although it failed its activation roll still killed 5 out of 6 stands. The last stand rallied for the next turn and proceeded to take out a manticore before dying.

Hydraphant managed to regenerate wounds and came forward still under fire from teh Sswords. However, when he engaged the infantry company hiding in some rubble and he was killed by lowly guardsmen.

At the end of the fourth turn neither of us had any goals and although the guard were pushed back they were probably in a better position to go for the victory if there had been another turn. Time was again the problem, but a nhonourable draw with 57 VPs in it. Note I did win SR twice in this game allowing me to get engagements off.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Thanks for the report! Agreed with Hena it would be interesting to see how you organised swarms :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Thanks for the report synposis, I look forward to your notes and comments!

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:21 pm 
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Final battle

Game 3 was again against Chaos, this time against Steve who has been playing Chaos for quite a while now at tournaments. His army consisted of 2 Retinues (no Rhinos), 2 Forlorn Hope (+ Rhinos), Chosen, Raptors & 3 Feral Titans.

In this game the FERALS were king with their MW Barrage attacks and my mistake in not spreading my formations out more. Steve went after BTS and attacked my Warriors with a combination of engagements using Chosen & Raptors or Retinue & Feral decimating both infantry formations. In this game we estimated that Steve had one engagement go against him when it should not have and I had three. However in the end I was left with a desperate attempt to engage Steve's BTS (Retinue) with the Harridan, Trygon & Gargoyle with the Hydraphant supporting. If I could have broken them I would have claimed Blitz and Take and Hold. They were shot down by the retinue which was waiting on overwatch for them. In hinesight I should have moved the Hydraphant off to contest one of my objectives and played for the draw, but I wanted to go for it as it was the last game of the day.

So three games against very good players resulting in two draws and a loss. I made some simple mistakes in a couple of the games, but this is a list that I would support for making official.

More points to come.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:41 pm 
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To answer some of the questions raised Yes Barrage did hurt, but it could have been worse.

Composition

Harridan + 2 Trygon & 4 Gargoyles
Hive Tyrant + 6 Carnifexes & Gargoyle (often to let the rest of the formation get into cover)
Hive Tyrant + 4 Haruspex, 4 Malefactors, 2 Gargoyles & 3 Termagants
Warriors + 12 Termagants, 2 Hormagants & 3 Gargoyles
Warriors + 12 Termagants, 2 Hormagants & 2 Gargoyles
Hydraphant
Genestealers
Lictors

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Notes & Comments

Harridan & Trygons in a formation are powerful, but players quickly realise to stay outside of 20cm Trygon CC charge range which negates alot of this formations power and MWs scare this formation.

Hydraphant, frightening when it gets to engage & especially in CC, but not that good otherwise. For 375pts I would say that its fine.

Haruspex & Malefactors are probably the most frightening of the units in the army as they are only 50pts each and have the potential to contribute 3 attacks to an engagement and have 4+ RA saves. If I have the models I would base my army fully around these and Carnifexes. The change to FF 5+ has definately reduced the effectiveness of the Malefactor & other units but I think that they are still too strong. I would suggest that both the Haruspex & Malefactor are reduced to a 5+ RA save and their re-spawn (Brood) value is reduced by 1 to 3. This would make them more vunerable but allow sufficient numbers to return to keep them viable.
Note as we were using Book rules the CC MW attacks from the Haruspex were only rolled for in it and a unit in BtB survived the initial hits, this rarely happennd.

I would like to try an army with a large number of genestealer formations. In theory you could field 6 formations of 6 for 900pts, which would bump up the activations and allow for several long range engagements. Of course against skimmers & especially Eldar these formations would be negated. I would say that genestealers are comparable with the Book Rough Riders (not currently proposed changed version) and are balanced cost wise with Boarboyz as well.

Blast Markers and Instinctive.
This to me is a finishing touch to the army as it brings back the feeling that all the othe armies have that under fire even drones will flinch. It gives you opponent a reason to shoot at you and you have to be more cautious with the formations not to lose their full activation. I believe that a formation that is instinctive should be allowed to engage or more, but nothing else as its hold action as this feels in character with the army.

So changes from the list that I played to the next one?
Well I suffered from a lack of shooting, most activations on the first turn were to March into position looking for the second turn engage. So I would add in some Dactylis to allow for one formation to hold ground and shoot.
Harridan & Trygons were satisfactory, but I would spend the points elsewhere in the future. They are nasty but with changes to hit allocation they will become more vunerable to TK hits.
Hydraphant is worth the points & I might try two in a future list to see if they could work in tanem, but then I would be restricting the number of genestealers and lictors that I could field.

All other units appeared fine and balanced in the list.

Discussing the battles against my opponents after the games it was agreed that it was a hard list to play against but not unbalanced & not unbeatable. New players against Tyranids will have problems but they did against Eldar, Ferals, Seige & Chaos.

Tim

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Steve54
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:29 am 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Aug. 26 2007,15:21)
QUOTE
but this is a list that I would support for making official.

As somebody who faced this army I would go along with that.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:10 am 
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After first being a little worried about such a bid change from previous versions I too thought the list worked well .
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Chroma
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:19 pm 
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(dptdexys @ Aug. 27 2007,11:10)
QUOTE
After first being a little worried about such a bid change from previous versions I too thought the list worked well .

WOOHOO!  Evolution in action and progress being made!

Thanks again for the reports!

I'll be working on the next interation this week; incorporating the "stream-lining" of rules and such.  Stay tunes!

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Markconz
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:23 pm 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 27 2007,12:19)
QUOTE
I'll be working on the next interation this week; incorporating the "stream-lining" of rules and such.  Stay tunes!

Will it be ready for my multiplayer nid game this weekend??  :)

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Chroma
 Post subject: Tournament Report
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:20 pm 
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(Markconz @ Aug. 27 2007,14:23)
QUOTE

(Chroma @ Aug. 27 2007,12:19)
QUOTE
I'll be working on the next interation this week; incorporating the "stream-lining" of rules and such. ?Stay tunes!

Will it be ready for my multiplayer nid game this weekend?? ?:)

Depends on work and wife... *laugh*

Most things will be staying the same in intent/meaning, just looking to clarify/clean-up the wordiness.

I don't think there are any unit/formation stat changes on the plate for this next version.

Note: Gargoyles are *supposed* to suck at AA... *laugh*  Tyranids themselves are supposed to suck at it... the Balloons and Gargoyles are stop-gap solutions.   :)

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