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[Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:41 am 
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First off, I really don't want Tyranids to get Blast markers.  Now, that is not set in stone, and perhaps I'll be convinced otherwise some day, but, for now, "No Blast marker for Bugs!"

So, what do we do about it?

Objective grabs, doing "end runs" with withdrawl moves, making counter-assaults after being assaulted, and Synapse Nodes are all problems cited for playing against the Tyranids; hard *and* frustrating for opponents to deal with, hard isn't bad, but the frustrating part is no good at all.

So, I was thinking about the little addition I made to "Unstoppable" about swarms beaten in assaults only being able to take "Hold" actions and the "mindless" of Synapse Nodes/Aerial Spores and thought about combining them into a special rule (Stay calm, Hena!) that would be added under the "Xenopsychology" heading.

Special Rule - Mindless

The hordes of creatures that make up a Tyranid swarm are not a mass of individuals, but are merely cogs in a great biological machine.  Even the higher order creatures like Hive Tyrants and Tyranid Warriors are more resonators of the Hive Mind's will than actual leaders; without the Hive Mind's guidance they lack the foresight and initiative that a Junior Office cut off from his Command might utilize when battlefield conditions change.  As well, some Tyranid creatures have no mind at all, they merely undertake purely instictive behaviours or undirected activity as the devour all that comes near them.

Such creatures are considered mindless.  A swarm containing mindless creatures may only take Hold actions, they are unable to perform more intricate battlefield activities.  Additionally, mindless creatures may neither control nor contest battlefield objectives, they can be quickly cut down by enemy forces without resistance since they have no direction.

All units in a Tyranid swarm that loses an assault become mindless until the start of the next turn to reflect the disruption of the Hive Mind's psychic link caused by the defeat.

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:15 am 
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(Chroma @ Jun. 12 2007,00:41)
QUOTE
First off, I really don't want Tyranids to get Blast markers.  Now, that is not set in stone, and perhaps I'll be convinced otherwise some day, but, for now, "No Blast marker for Bugs!"

So, what do we do about it?

Objective grabs, doing "end runs" with withdrawl moves, making counter-assaults after being assaulted, and Synapse Nodes are all problems cited for playing against the Tyranids; hard *and* frustrating for opponents to deal with, hard isn't bad, but the frustrating part is no good at all.

"No BM's for Bugs!"

Even the discussion has become frustrating let alone playing them.

Mindless will not prevent a formation from supporting an assault after it has failed one. Even with a Hold action it can reposition to provide that support.

It seems that my bugs might have to go into a drawer for a long time to come, currently they seem to be part of some other game not EA.

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Zzzap
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:23 am 
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I guess my biggest frustration is that it will take more and more layers of additional rules to try to fix a rule that breaks the game mechanics.

Wouldn't it be better to try to fix the rule itself?

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Hojyn
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:50 am 
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(Chroma @ Jun. 12 2007,00:41)
QUOTE
Special Rule - Mindless

The hordes of creatures that make up a Tyranid swarm are not a mass of individuals, but are merely cogs in a great biological machine. ?Even the higher order creatures like Hive Tyrants and Tyranid Warriors are more resonators of the Hive Mind's will than actual leaders; without the Hive Mind's guidance they lack the foresight and initiative that a Junior Office cut off from his Command might utilize when battlefield conditions change. ?As well, some Tyranid creatures have no mind at all, they merely undertake purely instictive behaviours or undirected activity as the devour all that comes near them.

Such creatures are considered mindless. ?A swarm containing mindless creatures may only take Hold actions, they are unable to perform more intricate battlefield activities. ?Additionally, mindless creatures may neither control nor contest battlefield objectives, they can be quickly cut down by enemy forces without resistance since they have no direction.

All units in a Tyranid swarm that loses an assault become mindless until the start of the next turn to reflect the disruption of the Hive Mind's psychic link caused by the defeat.

Oooh, I really like it, Chroma!  :D

I think it's a great idea and it finally rewards the opposing player for winning an assault against the Nids.

As for creating another special rule... Well, Mindless was already there for Meiotic Spores anyway, and it now prevents the Spores from engaging as well.

All in all, I love it and I hope it will be implemented in the v8.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:03 am 
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Actually mindless is a good general special ability - something for the 'other' rules review. So it would be a tyranid specific rule (or at least part of it wouldn't).

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:43 pm 
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(Hena @ Jun. 12 2007,04:28)
QUOTE
Breaking after assault and leaving the LSN out of the list.

Er, what does this refer to Hena?

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thurse
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:26 pm 
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Hi!

I like this mindless idea. A few points :

1) Support

Only thing that it doesn't solve is allowing Tyranids to give support fire after failed assault

Just add that mindless formations cannot support assaults

2) The rule is great but tend to help assault armies more than shooty ones.

How about that? :
-Nids receive BM as everybody else ( don't shout yet! ) .
-Nids ignore all the effects of BM except when they should become broken.
-instead of becoming broken nids become mindless.
-at the end of the turn all nids formation rally and remove all their BM

It makes nids ignore BM except against a lot of firepower. It makes it possible for the opponent to dislodge nids by shooting.

It may be too complicated...

3) Anyway, the mindless rule could make the army very vulnerable to 3rd turn assault/teleports especially with Necrons, Eldars and marines.

-Avoid enemy during the 2 first turns
-teleport/air assault nid formation just enough to make them lose an assault. Grab the objectives.

To be playtested...

4) It could hurt the carnifex swarm too much, as its strength was the fearless/unstoppable combo.

Cheers!

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:14 pm 
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(thurse @ Jun. 12 2007,14:26)
QUOTE
3) Anyway, the mindless rule could make the army very vulnerable to 3rd turn assault/teleports especially with Necrons, Eldars and marines.

-Avoid enemy during the 2 first turns
-teleport/air assault nid formation just enough to make them lose an assault. Grab the objectives.

I think just about every army has trouble with 3rd turn attacks like that.

There's no real difference between Mindless and Broken in that regard, except a mindless formation would still deny "They Shall Not Pass", I suppose.

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thurse
 Post subject: [Discussion] Potential Special Rule - Mindless
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:47 pm 
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think just about every army has trouble with 3rd turn attacks like that.

Well you are right but some have efficient overwatching units, others have mobility, and others have air assault too, and others have higher activation count.

Well I don't know.... But it can be a real issue!

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