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[Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:42 pm 
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(Chroma @ Jun. 10 2007,22:37)
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 10 2007,22:31)
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Yes it does.

I just have the Trygon .pdf off of the FW website, and it doesn't have any kind of special save there, did they add some kind of invulnerable save to them in IA4?

And the Hierophant has a "Warp Field" 5+ invulnerable save save in IA Update 2005, was that changed as well?

I'm definite on the Trygon at least (I'll confess to not remembering the IA:4 stats of the Hierophant offhand, and I'm not home right now so I can't check).

The preview version of the Trygon stats (The pdf) didn't include the shooting attack at all.

When the shooting attack was added later, so was the Invulnerable Save.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:46 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 10 2007,22:42)
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When the shooting attack was added later, so was the Invulnerable Save.

Well, that's good to know, I'll make sure it's back in there...

On the same note, do Trygons really deserve a 3+ armour save *and* invulnerable save?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:04 pm 
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In 40k they have 5 Wounds, Toughness 7, an Invulnerable Save and a Mass Point.

Carnifexes in 40k have 4 Wounds, Toughness 6, no Invulnerable Save and no Mass Points.


So yeah, it deserves its 3+ Armour Save IMO.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:35 am 
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Just in case people missed it:

The "preview" .pdf is available in the second post of this thread.

I look forward to more comments!

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:54 am 
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So has anyone tested those spores yet?  I have a feeling they might have to go at 15cm.  If the rules are sufficiently developed that they can do more than just guard dactylis effectively, then AA gargoyles could be ditched perhaps, but not until that point.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:24 am 
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(Hena @ Jun. 11 2007,05:34)
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The AA gargoyles are too good. You can easily create complete curtain with them.

Really that is an absolutely ridiculous statement Hena, as you would realise you had actually used them!  :)

In my experience they could do with a boost to 30cm range same as furies. At the moment they are easily avoidable, expensive, and ineffectual. I've never taken out a single aircraft (though I have placed BM's if they survive the aircrafts attack), and I've taken 10-20 Gargoyles per game. My friend has had the same experience. They are 25 points each, 2BP to spawn and die like flies - that is expensive!

100 points gets you 4 6+ AA attacks at 15cm range... compare with Orks (or anything!) who get 4 6+ AA attacks for 70 points with twice the range.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:26 am 
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(Hena @ Jun. 11 2007,07:32)
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I played against them. And I had serious problems in getting a pair of Thuderbolts to attack the Nids. There were very few places that I could reach without going through that 15cm range. My planes got both shot down in the first turn. Yes orks get them. But those are within blitz brigades. Ours are within the main assault swarms. Then add that Hydra and Dom both create their own fields.

You can easily get enough of them to cover all the important parts with just gargoyles.

Ah good to see others in your group actually using them. I must say you are very unlucky (or bad flying)  to find them working that well. Considering planes can be positioned to attack the edge of a swarm, their first attacks will often kill the gargoyles or at least not be in a position to be attacked themselves until the end phase - that is my experience.

My point still stands. On average you would have to fly through about 300 points of tyranid AA (at 15cm range) to lose 2 thunderbolts (compared to about 200 of ork AA (at 30cm range). Also ork flakwagons can be in any mob (and I usually take them in my assault mobs).

Yes you can 'cover' important parts of an army with gargoyles (as you should be able to!), but it is very expensive cover that doesn't work very well when you compare it to other armies.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:55 am 
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Like I said above, yes you can 'cover' all swarms, if what you mean by 'cover' is ineffectual ,vulnerable, expensive AA. (Ie you just cannot cover all swarms as you imply). Frankly you will often be better off just soaking the air attack on more resistant creatures rather than trying to stop it with gargoyles.

Gargoyles and Zoanthropes each have their own advantages and disadvantages and your comparison seems one-sided to me.  More tellingly, the issue of comparison with other armies AA shouldn't be avoided.

Yes I know you don't like gargoyles but you need to playtest them more I think  :).

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Soren
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:26 am 
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I really dislike the "Max units" per synapse creature. If you can pack units withing synapse range, it?s fine. If they fall outside they are removed. I like the things like they are now. Not again a complete redesign of synapse creatures. I don?t see them overpowered or broken. They work fine, so why again tweaking around on things working? Sorry but I miss the sense behind this.

I also don?t think that spawning is that much overpowered like some people tell. I never got back a Hierodule while spawning and most creatures cost arm and length on points for bringing them back (exept gaunts of course). If you think they come back too easily, increase their spawning values und decrease the spawning of the swarms. Much easier than designing around new rules for degration of spawning depending on available synapse creatures. (which is a useless new rule, not adding any fluff or game features but adding some maths an slows down again the play)

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Soren
 Post subject: [Preview] Tyranid Army List v8
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:39 am 
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One game is enough reference? ;)

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