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Tyranid Playtests

 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:36 am 
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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:36 am 
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The Cobras opened up the next Eldar turn by sustaining fire into the Armor Group hoping to eliminate the formation led by a Hive Tyrant. In the ensuing fire the Hive Tyrant was killed and the group reduced to three tanks.

They took an activation with one of the Hierophants advancing along the table edge.

The Eldar now advance a Storm Serpent and fire on the remaining tanks of the armor group without doing any damage. The Warp Spiders retain and assault the Tyranid Warrior formation with the Warlock in support. Again massive casualties were done but the Tyranid Warriors were not all killed so the formation was still kicking. It withdrew within synapse range of the tanks so they would not go to ground.

The balance of turn 2 was formations repositioning themselves for turn 3. The Eldar advanced the jetbikes within striking range of the Blitz. The Eldar aircraft made an attack on the Vituperator and nearly killed her doing 3 points of damage.

The Nids fired on the Cobras with three formations (I don't think they liked them). Unfortunately the Cobras failed to rally the BM's.

The regeneration and spawning were good for Nids.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:38 am 
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Turn 3:

Pic 10 & 11 is the board at the beginning of turn 3 and before the Lictors teleported.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:40 am 
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The Nids teleported the two formations of Lictors and surrounded the Eldar Blitz in two layers preventing any easy contesting. This would undoubtedly give the Nids at least the Blitz on turn 3 as well as Take and Hold which they had most of their remaining army surrounding. The Eldar had the Take and Hold and were going for the Blitz.

11:

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 am 
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The Eldar won the initiative and the Warlock executed a combined assault with the Warp Spiders against the Tyranid Warrior formation. The Warlock barged the tanks to get as close as he could. The assault was devastating on the Tyranid Warriors but still could not quite finish them off. The Warriors retreat into the row of buildings immediately to the right of the large building in pic 11. The Warlock consolidated to the position shown in pic 12 (although pic 12 was taken later in turn 3).

Now the Dire Avengers retained and assaulted the Dominatrix group with the Warlock and Warp Spiders in support. The assault was very destructive and began to strip off the meat shield the Dominatrix had acquired. The Dire's took 5 casualties and despite winning the assault were broken in the process.

The Eldar retained for a third activation and assaulted the Tyranid Warriors one more time with the Jetbikes. The Warlock and Warp Spiders were able to support. Finally, the Tyranid Warriors were wiped out and before they could activate. The Jetbikes took a single casualty and repositioned in support range of a planned assault on the Greater Synapse Node to come later.

The Tyranids assaulted the Cobras with a Hierophant to try to prevent it from firing. They were successful and one of the Cobras was lost. The remaining Cobra withdrew to the position it is holding in pic 12 just to the left of the large building.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:41 am 
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The Eldar activated a Storm Serpent and triple moved it to move the wraithgate within range of the Greater Synapse Node.

The Tyranid activated the Vituperator in order to shoot at the Warlock. Damage was beginning to accumulate on the Warlock from all his assaults and now from being fired upon.

The Eldar activated the Guardian host which assaulted the Greater Synapse Node and its entourage (2 Carnifex, 1 Termy). The Guardians were support by Jetbikes and won the assault. Forunately they were able to attack from an angle as to apply damage to the Greater Synapse Node first rather than the 2 Carnifex. The Greater Synapse Node was destroyed in the assault.

The balance of turn 3 was mostly remaining unactivated Tyranid formations shooting at the Warlock. Namely the HIerophant, and the Dominatrix group. The Dominatrix group actually failed to activate and the reroll had already been spent. So, they elected to shoot at the Warlock. Unfortunately for the Eldar the Warlock did not save well on these occasions and surrender his final point of damage.

The Eldar tried with the remaining activations to Break the Spirit of the Tyranid as they were close. The Nightwings were unable to do any damage to the Dominatrix who only lacked 1 point of damage.

Turn 3 ends with the Eldar holding the Blitz and Take and Hold. The Tyranid had the Blitz, Take and Hold and by a stroke of luck had Break the Spirit. The shots at and the missed saves by the Warlock cost the Eldar the game near the end of turn 3. So, the Tyranids would have won on Objectives at this point.

Casualties for Eldar were 54%, the Tyranid casualties were 41%.

The Tyranids won this one although it was quite painful for them.

We both were curious what would have happened on the fourth turn so we decided to play it despite the Tyranid win on turn 3. The Eldar were going to try to see if they could get the Break the Spirit objective against the Tyranid.

The Tyranid regenerated a point of damage on the Dominatrix and two points of damage on the Vituperator. This probably put the BTS out of reach but we tried anyway.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:42 am 
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Turn 4:

Pic 14 is the beginning of turn 4. The Eldar made several pretty good assaults at the Tyranid formations but were running out of gas. The fourth turn traded blows but the Eldar were unable to achieve the BTS objective. So, the fourth turn ended with both sides bloodier but still a Tyranid win with 3 goals to 2.

After turn 4 the Eldar casualties had reached 76% and the Tyranids at 48%.

OVERVIEW:

The Tyranid respawn and regeneration is still too large of an advantage. The Eldar created well more than 100% casualties on the Tyranid only to see them only reduced to about 60%.

The unbreakable Lictor scout, teleport, infiltrate, first strike, invulnerable save formations have far too much effect on the game mechanics. Coupled with teleport, fearless, WEs that can guard the Blitz with casualties respawned allows them to use far too great a percentage of their army in offensive operations.

There was very little odd dice anamolies in this game. Occasionally one side saved really well and hit well but it always seemed to balance out so that on the whole luck was not a factor.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:04 am 
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First...

I in no way endorse the fashion choices of the participants visible at the edges of the boards. :D

==

I haven't read the Eldar posts in detail.  I'll do so and discuss it with them.  I have, however, talked about some of the previous games.

The sketchy descriptions obviously obscure the on-board situations but in a terrain heavy situation like this city board many of the suggestions like concentrating fire are hard to capitalize on as terrain can quickly block visibility for a retreating formation.

A couple of specific things...

Someone asked about the gargant firing on a baseline unit on turn 1.  The Orks had more formations so they had the setup advantage of placing the gargant after the Nids.  It was on a road, so the double move was 40cm, not 30cm, giving it plenty of range to hit the titan first action.

Spawning:  A tactic that has been used in most of the games is the "Vituperator Brood Mother."  The Vit can fly up behind another Synapse and as long as it is within 20cm, it can spawn into range for the other Synapse to pick up the broods at the beginning of the following turn.  With 20cm range, it's pretty easy to stay out of 30cm for the distance spawn bonus.  With a spore, that's 3d3+1 spawning points to pump up the other swarm.  That's enough to spawn a new Heirodule for a Dom shield most of the time.  One of the turns which prompted the "holy cow, do they ever not roll max spawning" reactions was from a "Brood Mother" move like this.


Typical tactic goes something like:  The enemy has a formation vulnerable to assault.  Vit flies over and breathes on it from a relatively protected position (remember it can pop up).  The swarm retains and assaults, driving the enemy back and eliminating the primary threat to the Vit.  End phase the Vit spawns back to the swarm, plus the regular synapse.  With spores and/or a distance bonus, that swarm will regenerate 3-4 d3 points.

Next turn, repeat.  At DC4 and limited LoS that can see it, the chances of it being stopped by anything short of Deathstrikes is slim.


Another Vit tactic that has not been used in this series of games, but which we discussed in detail previously and which has been successful is a charge of synapse creature groups.

Deploy the Vit with a Warrior or Tyrant/Warrior group in it, Raveners for the armor saves in the remaining transport slots, and some gargoyles for good measure.  Drop them off up to 90cm away in turn 1.  Both synapse groups spawn in the end phase.  The Tyrant/Warrior group picks up all the broods.  BANG! you've moved a very large and otherwise slow swarm 90cm in one turn.

Obviously, this has some limitations.  It reduces first turn activations and can't be done into a hotly contested area.  However, it has some rather nice uses, not least of which is that it will crush the weak side of a refused flank defense, leaving a strong swarm in a threatening position.  It can also be used for a deployment feint if the enemy is unfamiliar with the capability or just misses it.  The Vit then goes back to being a brood mother.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:54 am 
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Neal - first off many thanks for taking the time to post your photos and comments/thoughts.

The first thing that struck me when I saw that battlefield was how amazing it looks - the second was how very different it looks to any battlefield I have ever used my bugs on. If you play using the GT terrain rules you could never end up with anything that dense. I am not at all suprised that opponents have struggled to win against the bugs with so much cover and so many buildings to block LoS - but then you did mention this in your summary.

Two battles ago my bugs lost to orks on a battlefield that had no terrain features whatsoever!

The vituperator / transport/ spawn issue is one I have never explored and it may be one we need to look at and have some more testing on. I have never fielded it for a couple of reasons, firstly I don't have a suitable proxy figure and secondly because I don't feel comfortable with the idea of transporting entire swarms (IIRC Jervis was against this).

That all said - I think the battlefield heavily (and I mean really heavily) favours a nid army - I would recommend that your colleagues try a battle using the gt terrain set up - i.e start with a blank mat and place a limited number of features.

Just a quick question - the nids did seem to spawn very well in all of these battles - were they using the -1 modifier for having enemy within 30cm (i.e. requiring a 3+ to spawn)? I ask because the one battle when I forgot I brought back almost everything. Now my opponents use their activation advantage to ensure that they rarely leave me outside 30cm from their troops.

Finally - in the last battle I fought using the dominatrix my opponent pretty much ingored it and its meat shield. After all it can only contest 1 objective and it costs a huge chunk of your points - he concentrated to killing everything else - that same tactic I use against orks with gargants - just keep them at arms length.

Thanks again Neal.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:51 am 
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I am stealing that  vituperator conversion idea I think!

Thanks Neal.  I haven't played by Nids enough to really comment too much but its good to get some ideas in my head to test.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:18 pm 
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Lightbringer:  This series was done on the urban terrain, but several games have been played on rural terrain (hills and trees) with similar kinds of results.  I'm assuming they are using the rules correctly regarding spawning.  I do, however, think they have been getting some consistently good luck on regeneration rolls.

If you look at the city, the terrain isn't as dense as you might first think.  Overall, it's only about 1.5x the suggested terrain amount for the GT.  Depending on how the tiles are laid out it can be disproportionately restrictive but that layout is not.  There are parts of it where the density is about 2x the suggested amount, but there are also some sizable open areas like the park and some very long, wide avenues with good fields of fire.  The units which are seriously disadvantaged in that terrain are ground vehicles.  Infantry, and arty are just fine.  Skimmers are mildly impacted.

Both IG fights were set up to take advantage of the long fields of fire (for example, an infantry company with fire support platoon on the building with the observation deck has a commanding view).  The Siege IG was all arty and infantry.  The Steel Legion had more vehicles but also had skimmers just about maxed out.  The Eldar force was skimmers, ignore cover (book rule army list) and infantry.  The orks had a lot of vehicles but they were largely slow (gargants and supastompas) so the +5cm move on roads gives them a substantial boost in mobility versus normal because it's virtually every move.  They also had lots of MW barrages to hit things only partially in LoS and negate cover saves (but obviously not the to-hit cover mod).

I agree the terrain favors Nids but not as heavily as you might think at first glance.

Finally - in the last battle I fought using the dominatrix my opponent pretty much ingored it and its meat shield. After all it can only contest 1 objective and it costs a huge chunk of your points


This is just not true.  The Nid player places the T&H objectives he is trying to capture.  If the Nids are driving a big, Dominatrix swarm "hammer" right across the board, they better have placed all their objectives in a tight group near the Blitz.  If objectives are 30cm apart, the Dom should be able to pick up 2 by moving right in between them and being 15cm (minus the width of the model) from each.  Blitz and one other T&H objective is 2 goals.  You can't just ignore something that will take enough objectives singlehandedly to win the game.  At the very least you have to move units close enough to contest, which means they are within assault range.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Mark L:  The body of the Vituperator is the small titan body.  The wings are Bloodthirster wings.  Personally, I think it's a little bit large for a 4DC critter but it does look good.

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 Post subject: Tyranid Playtests
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Neal - the point you make about the dominatrix contesting 2 objectives is of course true - but I've never found anyone has a problem contesting at least one of these objectives.

Think of it this way - you are investing 650 pts or more (Dom & 2 Trygons) on your Hive Group - your opponent can afford have 3,4 or even 5 formations for the cost of that Hive Group and can stay back until the bugs have run out of activations then move one stand from any one of these formations to contest. The Hive Group cannot spread its broods out far enough to preevnt this because there is just one synapse point (the Dominatrix) - thus no broods can be more than 15cm away from her and there will be plenty of space to contest.

In the meantime an opponent can just as easily avoid that Hive Group, maybe slow it down with some fast moving throw away unit - send other units past it and be fighting over your baseline and probably another one in the bug half.

All I'm saying is that if you frustrate the Hive Group rather than throwing everything at it you may be suprised at the result.

As to the battlefield - although I concede the density is not as dense as I may have suggested the type of terrain feature (i.e. built up areas) has as much influence on the battle. Lets say you are playing against the bugs and are placing alternate features - the last thing you want to place is a building so you place rivers and open areas (or at least my opponents do!).

As I have found out to my dismay - AV bugs can't cross rivers so you can slow half the army down or pin it deep in its own half by placing a river running the full width of the table halfway across the bug half.

The aim of all this is to get a bug list that is balanced for the GT game not for custom tables. Imagine a custom table which was a lake with a series of islands linking by narrow bridges - the eldar and tau would hammer everone.

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