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Synapse range
nealhunt
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:19 pm 
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Also there is the problem of killing units and spawning them to other formations.


In what way is this a "problem"?  Balance?  Style?  Min-max fiddliness?

Has anyone reported an abuse of this?  If so, what was the situation?

Also it removes one more stage to lose units in the list.

What it the purpose in doing this.  Does the amount of troops that go to ground under the current rules cause problems?  Has the list been shown to be fragile?  Does the swarm rule interfere with the intended horde-of-claws feel in some way?


I'm seriously mystified as to why anyone sees this as a problem.  I can see that it might, maybe, be a stylistic issue.  However, without some sort of mechanical basis or advantage to be had, that really doesn't matter.  It won't happen anyway.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:22 pm 
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What won't happen?


Violating the flavor ot he list won't happen.  People aren't going to take an action that violates style unless they perceive an advantage in it.

From my perspective it would take an extremely rare confluence of events to make the kill-spawn teleport worth the attempt.  So far, that potential confluence is entirely theoretical.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:46 pm 
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(nealhunt @ May 08 2007,15:22)
QUOTE
From my perspective it would take an extremely rare confluence of events to make the kill-spawn teleport worth the attempt. ?So far, that potential confluence is entirely theoretical.

It seems too risky to me to be a valid tactic, I just don't see any advantage in it.

You're weakening a swarm for the *chance* of strengthening another swarm.  You still need to make a successful spawn check and you still need to roll enough spawning points to recover what you've lost.

In all the games I've played, seen, or heard of, this just doesn't make sense to do with the way spawning works.  In "the old days" when you spawned during the Action Phase instead of the End Phase I could see it as a, beardy, tactic, but now it seems essentially pointless.

I will be making a point of stressing that in cases of swarms being out of formation, the portion with the most Synapse creatures can *not* be selected for removal.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:01 pm 
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..all of which leaves us where? :O

Are we all happy with the new proposed wording then - or at least prepared to agree to go with it in the next draft?

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:28 am 
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Hi Hena

Thinking about this over the weekend I think you are right - the simple way to manage this is to say that broods are removed after movement.

The alternatives are that you either hamstring faster synapse creatures (like a Harridan with a single carnifex) or if you say that the broods have to be as close as possible you end up with broods left like a trail of droppings behind the faster synapse creatures.

The cleaner way is to remove them if they are out of synapse range after any move the swarm takes.

At least lest run with that for now and see if it throws up any problems.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:42 am 
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Yep I agree. You lose what's not within 15cm is nice and simple. Please take out the line where it states "or move as close as possible" etc. It's far too confusing as it contradicts the previous passage in the rule. We want easier to understand with the Nids list as there are a few more complicated rules in this army than the basic rules set already.
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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:37 pm 
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I'd say 1 but worded a little bit differently.

1. Remove units after move. If a swarm's synapse creatures die before the swarm activates the swarm may still activate as normal but any broods that fail to get within the synapse range of a new synapse creature will go to ground as usual.

I'm not a fan of exceptions to rules unless they can be justified. Allowing the swarm to activate in the first place is good enough. This does raise the question of what happens if the swarm holds and does not actually make a move. Do we allow them to just huddle there untl the start of the next turn? I'd say yes.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:52 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Jun. 14 2007,14:37)
QUOTE
1. Remove units after move. If a swarm's synapse creatures die before the swarm activates the swarm may still activate as normal but any broods that fail to get within the synapse range of a new synapse creature will go to ground as usual.

The thing is, if "out of formation", you *must* attempt to get back into formation in your next action or be removed.  

A Synapse-less swarm cannont, by definition, get into Synapse coherency with its nonexistant Syanpse creature, so it'll be removed without doing anything as soon as it's selected for activation; it's destroyed as soon as completing a move, which is *must* take.

While certainly a plausible situtation, the Brood creatures have nothing controlling it anymore, it seems a little harsh.

If we allow them to attempt to move to new Synapse creature, that's still an exception to the rules, especially if it takes more than one move to get there.  I'm not against this exception, it's just that it's a variant on what is currently allowed.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Synapse range
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:03 pm 
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I'm in favor of death for being out of coherency.  Period.  If you lose the Synapse before activating, it sucks to be you.

If there must be an exception to that, the swarm should be restricted as to actions it can take and probably also end its action within range of another synapse.  If it can't get there for some reason, e.g. failed activation and Hold won't get it in synapse range, the swarm should disintegrate.

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