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'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:00 pm 
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Then the ERC isn't a 'Committee' at all.

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Chroma
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:12 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 03 2007,13:00)
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Then the ERC isn't a 'Committee' at all.

And this isn't an argument... it's just contradiction!

No it's not.   :D

Count me in as willing to help with this as well.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:17 pm 
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Everyone pretty much knows in general terms.  The issue, much like development of the army lists, is that the Champion is expected to guide the development by providing the details.  All the experimental rules have pretty much been debated to the fullest extent possible.  In most cases, there are several potential tweaks that could be implemented.  It's the Champion's final call on which ones are to be pursued that is the real holdup.

===

BTW, I'm pretty much behind a "NetEA" or "TacCom EA" at this point.  It won't be official, obviously.  However, having a set of defined problems to address and some sort of organized progress, even if it is still slow, is better than nothing.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:20 pm 
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Without getting into specifics, can Greg be expected to be back within a reasonable time frame?

If not, someone needs to step up, or at least ensure that someone else is enabled to step up, if you take my meaning...

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:38 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Apr. 03 2007,11:19)
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Cybershadow I am sure would host it with great enthusiasm. ?You'll be touted in the halls of Epicdom for ages to come.

Go on, appeal to my ego... that never fails!  :;):

It is probably not a surprise that this has come up time and again behind closed doors. The main reason that this has not happened in the past is that the people involved (myself included) felt that it would actually be bad for the game. The clear outcome would be two systems, one official and the other supported. The tournament scene would be unwilling to accept a fan-based offshot of the official rules, and without the 'SG/GW stamp' people are just as likely to play command horizon with Epic miniatures (and, why not?).

I do think that people should take a breath a little. We are all frustrated with 'progress' at this point.

Please remain faithful that discussion continues, but that we are all also careful about the effect that we may have on the games that we play.

Thanks.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:47 pm 
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For me, the only reason to forum a NetEA group would be for those rules to then be adopted as the official rules review... basically with 'NetEA' as a sub-group of the ERC.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:31 pm 
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Tournaments: Epic is already the redheaded step-child of GW anyway, with the least amount of table space available as far as I have read.  If you have to play under two separate rules, then so be it.

Bad for Epic?:Entirely possible.  But SG by all arguments here is bad for Epic, so what do you do?  While CS's concerns are valid, there is a solution: make the changes anyway.  Go through the effort of re-doing the whole thing anyway.  THEN you submit that directly to Andy, CC in Greg and let the chips fall where they will.  
At that point they have a choice to either accept it or decline it.  My guess is IF you were to do this they would just let it pass through.  If they decided to be more involved then you got your wish too.
If they decline it in its entirety then you have at least pushed the game in the direction it needs to go without SG support... the NetEA.  

Technical mumbo jumbo: Once again, Hena brings up a valid point.  But I never said it would be easy.  But the real stuff behind this endeavor would not be the layouts and artwork and borders and such.  It would be the content.  All of the words can be copy-pasted from the pdf files, dumped into Word, edited, and inserted into a new pdf.  

THIS is what you submit to Andy and Greg and Jervis.  Either they will give you access to the original pdf, or they will insert it themselves, or they will tell you to pound salt, or any combination of the three.

But try not to be caught up in the nay-saying of all this.  DO IT.  
Step One: Elect/Select Leadership.  My suggestion is a committee of 3 or 5. Names must be nominated by somebody other than yourself.  This becomes the candidate pool.  
Step Two: Elections. Poll stays open for two weeks.  Send out PMs / Emails to the entire Tactical Command mailing list.
Step Three: New NetERC makes a game plan and starts recruiting help from the community to accomplish the task.  
Step Four: Re-write occurs.  Editing afterwards.  Final product created.
Step Five: Submit to old ERC.  See what happens.
Step Six: Be prepared for anything. :)

I know I am oversimplifying this, but not by much.  This is called Plan B.  It prepares for the worst while hoping for the best.  

I nominate Steve54 for the NetERC. :devil:

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Moscovian
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:33 pm 
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By the way, I am more than happy to wait for Greg.  

:( Unfortunately I have not heard from him.  Either he is unwilling or unable to respond.  Either way, there is no harm in continuing on this course, IMO.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:45 pm 
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CS - at the last tourny I was at the WPS (well the players) were considering a WPS rules review sorta thing whilst shooting the breeze' (correct American term?) due to about half wanting the changes, the rest not sure what they were.

All the election stuff is pretty unnessecery. Let people work at stuff then see who is reliable and produces and let that process shake people out, hopefully leaving a keen hard core :)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:00 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Apr. 03 2007,08:17)
QUOTE
BTW, I'm pretty much behind a "NetEA" or "TacCom EA" at this point. ?It won't be official, obviously. ?However, having a set of defined problems to address and some sort of organized progress, even if it is still slow, is better than nothing.

As am I. I'm well beyond the need for GW's official stamp of approval. True, many tournaments will not reconize as NetE:A, but most of the games I play are with TacComm members anyway who in all likelihood will accept it.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:21 pm 
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I think everyone would be much happier if *insert everything you want* but that isn't happening.

So your only alternatives are to:
1) Change things internally. ?That would mean contacting the people who are holding up the process and ....
2) Change things externally. See my entire thread above.
3) Wait.

You can get so confused
that you'll start in to race
down long wiggled roads at a break-necking pace
and grind on for miles across weirdish wild space,
headed, I fear, toward a most useless place.

The Waiting Place...
...for people just waiting.
Waiting for a ?train to go
or a bus to come, or a plane to go
or the mail to come, or the rain to go
or the phone to ring, or the snow to snow
or waiting around for a Yes or a No
or waiting for their hair to grow.
Everyone is just waiting.

Waiting for the fish to bite
or waiting for wind to fly a kite
or waiting around for Friday night
or waiting, perhaps, for their Uncle Jake
or a pot to boil, or a Better Break
or a string of pearls, or a pair of pants
or a wig with curls, or Another Chance.
Everyone is just waiting.
from Oh The Places You'll Go! by Doctor Seuss.

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Steve54
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:39 pm 
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Email from Greg

We have a few minor wording changes to clarify some things and a final pass of forum review on a coupld of the items ... Very close.

Greg

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Steve54
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Moscovian - I don't see that anything I have said is particularily contentious, all the aggression appears to be coming from you - If thats the route you want to go then fine

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Moscovian
 Post subject: 'Interesting' comment in WD (UK)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:03 pm 
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(Steve54 @ Apr. 03 2007,10:41)
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Moscovian - I don't see that anything I have said is particularily contentious, all the aggression appears to be coming from you - If thats the route you want to go then fine

Huh?  What aggression?

If you were referring to me nominating you for the NetERC then... I... guess I am a really bad person.  ???  I retract my nomination.  I assumed that since you wanted everything done NOW bad enough, you'd be good at getting it done.  Bad assumption I guess?

As for the rest of my babbling, it may have come off as a rant but I am dead serious (for those of you who may have also misinterpreted).  If you don't like the pace of things, fix it yourself.  That isn't mean or aggressive, it is simply the best solution.

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