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7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Moscovian

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:50 am

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Only ePilgrim would make a bunch of edits to the Tyranids, then play the previous version in order to beat me to death, wipe me out, then try to make them more powerful.

He's an odd boy.

The SMs did so poorly against the Tyranids that it isn't worth posting a batrep. Here is the summary:

I shot at him with everything and at the end of Turn II he had lost nothing.

Turn III I died. End of game.

Albeit most of this was due to a combination of bad rolls on my part (big surprise there...

) and outrageous saves from ePilgrim (once again, a standard for our games). Things like making two invulnerable saves in a row, etc..

It wasn't exactly a game to draw too many conclusions from.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:37 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

I dare say that when we play my edits, the results won't be so one sided, but every idea takes time. At least that game was a good baseline for any bright idea I might have...I really like the ideas in the list and I just want to explore some changes.

Who knows I may get them to a point where you can even win one! (smack talk before Friday gets M in the mood for 6mm mayhem)

regardless it's about having fun!

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:39 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

So...things we all seem to agree on,

Bio-Titan Warp Blast
30cm MW4+ / AA 5+and
(15cm) (small arms) Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Replaces Large Warp Blast and Smite

Zoanthrope: add Walker

Carnifex - Venomspitter correct Twin-Linked Venom Cannon AP 4+ / AT 5+

Lictor replace Invulnerable Save with
Special: Hard to See ? Any Formation further than 30cm away from a Lictor unit must count the Lictor as in cover (1- to hit) with a 4+ cover save.

Genestealer add to notes
(Up to 1 Genestealer unit per Army can be upgraded to a Broodlord with the following additions to it?s profile: Inspiring and Macro Weapon, Extra attack (+1)).
add to army list entry for genestealer formation
(Up to 1 Genestealer unit per Army can be upgraded to a Broodlord for +50 points)

new unit
Malanthrope (200 points, Synapse Creature Group)
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Light Vehicle / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 6+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Ripper Tidal Swarm / (15cm) (small arms) / Extra Attack (+1 per enemy unit w/in 15cm)
Toxic Talons / (base contact) / (assault weapons) / Sniper, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Walker, Infiltrator, Fearless, Inspiring, Synapse (2d3-1)

Things that seem interesting....

Gargoyles change to
Bio-Plasma (base contact) (assault weapons) First Strike
Brood (2)

Zoanthrope revise
Warp Blast / 30cm / AP 4+/AT 4+/AA 5+ and
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?(15cm) / (small arms) / Macro-Weapon

Objectives:
TYRANID OBJECTIVES (choose up to 1)
Tyranid Brood Nest (25 points) ? replace one objective on your table half. Up to one formation per Army containing no War Engine creatures may start off board and enter play, by placing the Synapse Creature Group w/in 5cm of this objective on any turn when they make a successful action test.
Tyranid Spore Chimney (50 points) ? replaces 1 objective on your table half. Any Tyranid formation w/in 15cm of this objective (see T1.71) gains The Horror (Inspiring)
Tyranid Capillary Towers (100 points) ? roll d3 and have the opponent replace that many generic objectives. Any Tyranid formation w/in 15cm of this objective (see T1.71) may re-roll up to one d3 during a Spawning Action.

Somethings that did not get much of a reaction...

New Unit
Tyrant Guard
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Armoured Vehicle / 15cm / 3+ / 3+ / -
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Rending Claws / (base contact) / (assault weapons) / Macro-Weapon
Lash Whips / (base contact) / (assault weapons) / First Strike, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Walker, Fearless
Special: Sacrifice ? any Tyrant Guard within 5cm of a Hive Tyrant may be allocated one hit intended for the Hive Tyrant regardless of targeting rules including the Sniper special ability. If each Tyrant Guard has been allocated a hit this ability cannot be used to prevent the Hive Tyrant from being allocated a hit.

Formations: replaces existing entries
Attack Group (1 Malanthrope unit) 200 points (Spawning rate, 2d3-1)
Nexus Group (1 Hive Tyrant unit) 100 points (Spawning rate, 1d3+1)
(Any Hive Tyrant may add a retinue of 3 Tyrant Guard units for +125 points)

Any thoughts or discussion?

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:06 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I disagree, I think the Malanthrope is perhaps even overpriced at 200, but that's where I'd start.

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thurse

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:57 am

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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Dundee, Scotland

Hi!
just a remark concerning the lictor rule : I understand your logic, but if you add this rule to lictors, should we add it to unit with exceptionnal hiding abilities :
-Tau stealth?
-Eldar Rangers (cameleonine stuff)?

That's why I think lictors don't need that.

Oh, by the way, did anybody had news from Jaldon?

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ragnarok

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:26 am

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

(Hena @ Sep. 22 2006,09:16)

QUOTE

[quote="epilgrim,Sep. 22 2006,02:39"]Formations: Malanthrope should have a new one ... What the fluff on this?

What about reclimation group? Its job is to go round and collect the dead and dying (I'm not dead yet) and learn fomr their DNA.

As for the "shrouding" ability of the lictor, it should have it, as should those who are nearly as good as it at hiding as it (It is a 3 meter tall several ton killer that is impossible to see at range, it is the best stealth unit ever)

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:55 am

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Broodlord: I agree on the new entry for the brood lord, but I disagree on adding an Invulnerable Save. As you told me earlier the Stealer formation do not need an armour upgreade to 5+, and based on the Nid special rules inspiring is a tremendous bonus. The limit of one and cost of 50 points is where this should stay IMO.

Malanthrope: E & C is echoing my feelings on the Malanthrope, but as per my note above his special ablilities in context with the Nids rules makes him pricey, but 200 point should be our baseline. If he becomes a default choice and a means of victory consistantly then that needs to be examined.

Lictor: The "hard to see" rule is all about the setting for the nids...it's his thing...I have softened it a bit from the Space marine and WH40K versions to make him hard to hit, but not invincible (or invisible). Lastly, the one thing this list does not have, but all of the others do are unit specific special rules that help inject character into the army. The Lictor is a signature warrior for the Nids, this feels right.

Synapse Creatures: I think eight of them is plenty. that gives the Nids a total of 12 formations, eight of which are unrestricted in terms of composition.

The Malanthrope and the HT with a Tyrant Guard are suggested to replace the previous Nexus and Attack entries for a couple of reasons.
? ?First, The Mala and the TG were not in the list and even there are no models from SG we have all seen example of everyones excellent modeling skills that make gaps in the Nid range irrelevent.
? ?Second, Since the HT is a primary synapse in any hive battle formation it seemed right to rename him the Nexus entry. By default the Mala was named the Attack.
? ?Third, by removing the HT/TW the last of the discrepancies of combining Synapse Creatures are removed.
? ?Lastly the addition of the TG will fix the tendancy to use ablative armour creatures (which seems very un-hive minded) and give the HT a characterful retinue. However since they are an option, at a fixed cost and cannot be spawned, it becomes a play-style choice.

Is everyone ok with the first three things: BT Warp Blast, Zoey -Walker and TL VC correct?

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ragnarok

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:11 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

If we get rid of the nexus group then I would like the ability to buy it back. Something along the lines of synapse groups may buy upto an additional 2 warrior stand at 50pts each each one either not changing the spawning roll, or only adding +1 to it.

I find that nexus groups are very useful for controlling large combined armed swarms, which I normally don't field.

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:19 pm

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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

What about reclimation group? Its job is to go round and collect the dead and dying (I'm not dead yet) and learn fomr their DNA.

Neat...Reclamation Group...thanks Ragnarok, other ones along this line would be Dissector Group...Recombinant Group...Assimilation Group...Absorption Group...ewww

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:33 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Ragnarok,

I hear you on the desire for a backup plan for Synapse control and the use of mixed inf and AV. I think that is a potential flaw in the list overall, basically people taking a minimum amount of common troops and concentrating on the uncommons.

Personally I run with mixed swarms regardless of Synapse choice. I do try to protect the Synapse with a same type creature (or two, or several), but the common creatures are key to overwhelming an opponent IMO. Plus they come back real easy during spawning.

If the TW were added as a back up to other swarms, I'd say only one Synapse group can "control" the swarm and thus the back up does not add to the swarming value. If the TW is tapped as the Synapse because the "leader" dies then you'd use the TW value...it's a thought...What do you think?

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epilgrim

Post subject: 7.1 WIP (Kooky)

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:20 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 12:28 pm
Posts: 362

Hena,

Broodlord and Lictor: personally I don't' like over use of Invulnerable Save.

Lictor, Tyrant Guard and Special rules in general:

what would Epic or any other GW game be without Funky Rules...I can't imagine a game like this without them. Well, actually I can, but none of use would have near as much fun.

Epic A is built on a solid core, but entirely reliant on generic Special Rules and a few race and unit specific ones.

Synapse Groups: What did you think of the idea of the TW as a back-up synapse? The main reason I had suggested removing the HT/TW was that it seemd that most people were not selecting these...

Malanthrope: Well, for now I'm going to run him around at 200 points and see what he can or can't do. I think in the end the price might need to go down as per E & C.

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