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something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:22 am 
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I originally posted it at 200...compromise? try it at 200 with the stats above?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:02 am 
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I know he is a Monsterous Creature, but here is my reasoning on the making him Infantry. He's meant to lead rippers, so it follows that he is most likely meant to have termagants, hormagaunts and such in tow.


In 40k he is a Large Target. This puts him in the same category when shooting at him as a Hive Tyrant or a Carnifex.

He needs to be AV or LV at the smallest.

We already have 4 WE and 2 AV synapse, with only the TW as Inf Synapse. Why not make the Malanthrope tough like a Terminator Stand with RA 4+? (note I removed the INV Save).

His save isn't good enough to deserve RA 4+ IMHO. RA 5+ or 3+ yes.

I gave him 1 macro CC attack so he isn't totally weak in B to B and used Ragnorok's +1 per FF idea.

His attacks are nowhere near Macro status in 40k. He has a random number of normal attacks (D6+2 when charging). I think D3 EA would be a good approximation.

He does have a rule that he slays multi-wound creatures instantly if he causes a single unsaved wound in CC. It might be cool to give him this rule for when he fights Bio-Titans from other Hive Fleets or the Dark Eldar gladiator beast. This rule does not work on Daemons or C'tan.

He's cut to 15cm Infiltrate, as per E & C

I agree with this E&C fellow.

He keeps Walker, Fearless and my own Spawning value of 2d3-1 giving him a spawn range of 1 - 5. He also keeps Inspiring  (as per several of you) making him unique among the other Synapse.

All sound good.




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ragnarok
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:21 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 21 2006,09:02)
QUOTE
I know he is a Monsterous Creature, but here is my reasoning on the making him Infantry. He's meant to lead rippers, so it follows that he is most likely meant to have termagants, hormagaunts and such in tow.


In 40k he is a Large Target. This puts him in the same category when shooting at him as a Hive Tyrant or a Carnifex.

He needs to be AV or LV at the smallest.

I agree that he should be an AV he is a floating hive tyrant, it will also increase his vulnrability to incoming fire and thus reduce his points

We already have 4 WE and 2 AV synapse, with only the TW as Inf Synapse. Why not make the Malanthrope tough like a Terminator Stand with RA 4+? (note I removed the INV Save).

His save isn't good enough to deserve RA 4+ IMHO. RA 5+ or 3+ yes.

I think that he (as well as the tyrant and fexes) should have 4+RA. ?4 wounds, T6 with a 2+/6+ save. ?It will take at least 4 lascannon hits to fell one, which is the most needed to destroy a leman russ MBT (unless averages fail you.

I gave him 1 macro CC attack so he isn't totally weak in B to B and used Ragnorok's +1 per FF idea.

His attacks are nowhere near Macro status in 40k. He has a random number of normal attacks (D6+2 when charging). I think D3 EA would be a good approximation.

He does have a rule that he slays multi-wound creatures instantly if he causes a single unsaved wound in CC. It might be cool to give him this rule for when he fights Bio-Titans from other Hive Fleets or the Dark Eldar gladiator beast. This rule does not work on Daemons or C'tan.

I think a single MW attack is more suited than +D3. ?He doesn't have more attacks than a pair of stealers, and two pair of stealers only have +1 attacks.

Though thinking about it perhaps giving his close combat attacks lance would work better, to represent that heavy armour is useless compared to his toxins

He's cut to 15cm Infiltrate, as per E & C

I agree with this E&C fellow.

He keeps Walker, Fearless and my own Spawning value of 2d3-1 giving him a spawn range of 1 - 5. He also keeps Inspiring ?(as per several of you) making him unique among the other Synapse.

All sound good.

I think he should be move 20cm no infiltrate. ?Like the majority of our foot sloggers.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:46 am 
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the next iteration: By changing him to LV he becomes vulnerable to any potential hit, keepin RA gives him some survivability. I changed his EA to Sniper. Before we all go nuts, hear me out. Sniper will give him the ability to target one model he gets in B-t-B with, but it's only a -1 to the save, if he hits. IMO thats a clear compromise between a Macro and giving him +d3 EA. Again IMO 200 points is a worthy price point for his use. more expensive that HT or TW less that the Harridan, but with unique abilities. Hopefully I am getting closer to encompassing everyone's comments or concerns. give him a look.

Malanthrope (200 points, Synapse Creature Group)
Type / Speed / Armour / Close Combat / Firefight
Light Vehicle / 15cm / 4+ / 3+ / 6+
Weapon / Range / Firepower / Notes
Ripper Tidal Swarm / (15cm) (small arms) / Extra Attack (+1 per enemy unit w/in 15cm)
Toxic Talons / (base contact) / (assault weapons) / Sniper, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Reinforced Armour, Walker, Infiltrator, Fearless, Inspiring, Synapse (2d3-1)

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ragnarok
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:03 pm 
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I real like the sniper idea.  Pure genius.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:13 pm 
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I think a single MW attack is more suited than +D3.  He doesn't have more attacks than a pair of stealers, and two pair of stealers only have +1 attacks.


A Malanthrope only has moderate strength and its attacks do not ignore armour... it's not worthy of macro status IMHO.



Sniper is a good idea.

The Tidal Swarm of Rippers looks scary! But at FF6 it could be cool. :)

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epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:35 pm 
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The Tidal Swarm of Rippers looks scary! But at FF6 it could be cool.


the Necron list uses this ability quite a few times both for CC and FF, but to be honest the stats for them are 5+ and 4+, our 6+ here is much milder in comparison.

glad the sniper idea made sense.

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Chroma
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:50 pm 
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(Hena @ Sep. 21 2006,12:43)
QUOTE
Cost is still to low.

It's twice the value of a Hive Tyrant! ?*laugh* ?Any more expensive and, as an LV, why would you take one?

Love the use of sniper!




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epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:52 pm 
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Hena,

with the Harridan at 225 and the bio-titans at 250 and 350 respectively, are you serious?

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epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:20 pm 
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I think the Harridan's move and combat profile (which is much more powerful than the Malanthrope) make up for it's targetability. As for slower, the Harridan should be leading Gargoyles mostly so as not to hamper its speed. Hampering it with anything slower, with the possible exception of Hormagaunts and Raveners (20cm infil) seems counter-intuitive.  

As for the Malanthrope's price I saw through everyone else eyes and trimmed back the capabilities of the malanthrope while still realising that each ability it retained kept the cost up.

Regarding the spawning value of 1 to 5 (with an average of 3), its less than the HT/TW combo of 3 to 5 (with an average of 4) and marginally better (or equal) than the HT with a 2 to 4, (average of 3).

I can see people asking for the price to go down, which until it gets a good round of testing I'd be against, but I cannot see a reason to raise it either.




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epilgrim
 Post subject: something old, new, borrowed and buggy!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:51 pm 
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Assuming you would run a Harridan into the path of a TK shot as opposed to taking advantage of its movement rate you are correct, there is little to protect the Harridan. At that point the Harridan itself is a tactical challenge or liability, either you exploit its movement, or you try to screen it with other WE, thus sacrificing it's advantages by tying it to other slower stuff.

Honestly I think a lot of the others might balk at 200 points for the Malanthrope, but I think 200 is the upper limit, at least until it gets some playtime. it's 4x the price of the L-node, , twice the price of the HT or the G-node and between the Harridan and the TW's...it's vulnerable to all incoming fire and it can only take one wound.




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