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Melta-Cannon |
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon  Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:04 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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I'm a little worried about the Melta Cannon... In every game I've played with it when it gets inside range it absolutely slaughers entire formations. In my game against DS it offed 2 Shadowswords. One had 1 damage on it prior to that. The third died to my TLDs but that was with just 1 Melta-Cannon... I'm worried this weapon may be better then the alternatives, especially on Reavers. On an individual basis the weapon is fine. Just one of these is reasonably good at killing titans and RA units, not so hot against non-RA infantry or the like... The trouble is it's a Tactical weapon, meaning I can mount 3 of these on a Reaver, double move and shoot at something 70cm from my starting point (On a board which is 180x120, six by four feet, that's most of the game board short-ways and a significant chunk long-ways. Especially on turn 2+ when I can spend turn 1 marching to move 60cm!) This just seems genuinely better to me then any of the alternative weapons available... Especially against RA and other Titans. Even against infantry it's very very nice. 6 shots at 4+. Not as good as 15 shots at 4+, base line. But shoot at, say, Marines. 15/2=7.5/2=3.25. Melta-Cannons get 6/2=3. Roughly the same kill-rate against marines. The VMB gets better kills against lighter infantry with 5+ or no saves. The Melta-Cannon though gets 4+ shots against ANYTHING it feels like which isn't in cover. 5+ against cover units which isn't great... But still averaging 2 instant-deaths with 3 of them.
My recommendation: Move the Melta-Cannon to the Support list. It's essentially equivilent in power, IMHO, to a Volcano Cannon. 1/3 the range, 2x the fire-power. Plus it can be used in a FF. But it's genuinely better, IMHO, then the other tactical weapons are (Save possibly the Inferno Guns, but only because 4x Inferno Guns gives you 16BP and lets you drop 5 BMs just for firing).
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:39 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:01 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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Personally, I don't think it's needed. The problem here isn't that the Melta-Cannon on an individual basis is too strong, it's that you can field so many of them that makes them too good, IMHO. Being able to load a Reaver with 3 of these is just absurd. 6xMW3+ TK(D3) shots is insanely good. Even just averages you're looking at ~8 DC worth of MW damage on an Advance. IF you sustain you're looking at 10+ on average. One-shotting a Warlord is quite possible with these weapons, even on a double, as you're still averaging 3 hits on a double. Meaning 3-9 damage. And the potential there is MUCH better then that.
Individually I wouldn't count the Melta-Cannon as being any better then a Volcano Cannon. But the ability to load a titan with tons of these things is unbalancing IMHO.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:12 am |
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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I think my point was that I'd tend to make a better weapon (like a Melta Cannon) a more expensive choice, and thus make it prohibitively expensive to field such an over-powered combination, rather than placing a finite limit on the number of melta-cannons allowed... you run the risk of making the Tactical choice weapons rather bland otherwise IMO.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:31 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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But the Melta-Cannon isn't really a better weapon on it's own. It's maybe better then the other tactical weapons by a bit, but not a lot. The TLDs are great for taking out mass transports. Orks, IG and Tau for instance who have a heft number of transport or low-armored vehicles fear them a lot. The VMB likewise lays down huge numbers of shots into infantry with quite a lot of power, and is great for chewing up things like IG/Ork infantry, Eldar Guardians and even a lot of the Eldar Aspect Warriors. The trouble is that the Melta-Cannon is almost as good at those things as those weapons are. And it's much better then either are at killing heavily armored units like Leman Russ and Terminators. But, on an individual basis, the weapon is fine and balanced. 1 Melta-Cannon will do at most 2 kills to infantry/tanks, and might take out 1-2 SHT or small Titans with reasonable regularity, but will never instantly kill large titans. 3 at once, though, have a very reasonable chance to walk up to almost anything and killing it effortlessly. 6 shots at 3+ TK(D3) is quite a powerful ability. 2 shots at TK(D3) is reasonable, to me, though.
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Evil and Chaos
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:02 am |
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
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Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
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Aye, but compared to the other Support choices, it's a pretty inferior choice?
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Ilushia
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:33 am |
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am
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I don't think it is inferior to the other support choices. It's roughly equiv to the Volcano Cannon. 1/3 the range, 2x the potential fire-power. It hits on a 3+ instead of a 2+ which is a little painful, but not too bad. You double with one to get inside 30cm and you have the same effective chances to hit as a single-move volcano cannon. And your potential maximum damage is much better. Plus there's the fact that it works in an assault as a TK FF weapon. Compared to the Vortex Missile it's still quite good. The missile is a one-shot weapon so it's useful but not that great. The Plasma Destructor throws out twice as many shots, at three times the range, same hit-rate. But it's only MW and it's Slow-Firing. The Quake Cannon again has triple the range and it's a BP weapon so it can lay down a lot of hurt in theory, it's also a MW so it's quite nice for killing lots of things. The Barrage Missile feels less powerful then the others... Being only D6+3 BP and Disrupt. But that Disrupt makes a big difference, especially if you put two of them on the same titan. Throw a single one out each of the first two turns and you can fairly easily break an enemy formation having a minimum BP of 4 and a max of 9 each turn.
I'd consider the Melta-Cannon to be on-par with most of the Support weapons. The only ones which strike me as particularly better/worse then it is are the Barrage Missile (Worse). But it has it's own specific use and is very nice for that use (Imagine a titan with one of these backing up an assault Reaver or a unit of Knights. The other formation assaults, breaks the enemy, then this thing drops D6+3 BP worth of Disrupt on Sustained Fire at them from most of the way across the field. The Disrupt is more then sufficient to place tons of blast markers so it's fine with me).
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redsimon
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Post subject: Melta-Cannon Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:39 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:26 am
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Location: Germany
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Sounds like it should be added to the support weapons list then.
I'm not a friend of the "independent weapons point costs" thing, I think a less complicated army list is better.
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[ 8 posts ] |
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