Tactical Command | View topic

Page 2 of 3

[ 40 posts ]

Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts

Tau vs. Orks

Tactica

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:35 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

4. I?d be very interested to see the ?Five Aces? Tigershark list run up against an Ork list like I faced. I have stated in other posts what I think would happen, but I?d like one of the 5A proponents take their list against this one.

After the nid game, I too have an idea! Shawn sounds like a good player.

I would concur, the "Five Aces" list would not do well against this list. The crisis and HH would be heavily relied upon to to the majority of the damage. The crisis would not last long as they have to get too close to deal their damage, that leaves the HH to do a lot of work. The PF's would do what they could to support the infantry hordes, but you would not have enough there and you'll need them to claim at the end... that puts an increadible amount of work into 5 planes valued at 875 points or so.

The end game of that one doesn't even need to be played out IMHO. However, if Shawn is up for it - please - give it a go and let us know how it works out!

cheers,

_________________
Rob

Top

code_ronin

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:06 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127

Honda,

I know you like writing reports in your other style, but I liked this writing style. :shrugs: Go figure.

The only thing that is unclear to me is how he took you down. Was it by firepower (presumably from the Bug Gunz and Tankz) or was it from assault (with the Bikerz and the Boyz)?

Thanks of the report and the analysis.

My Jetbikes are warming up for this Wed. >:)

_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.

Top

Honda

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:47 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I know you like writing reports in your other style, but I liked this writing style. :shrugs: Go figure.

Well, you know me, I'm always trying to cater to different audiences.

The only thing that is unclear to me is how he took you down. Was it by firepower (presumably from the Bug Gunz and Tankz) or was it from assault (with the Bikerz and the Boyz)?

Actually, I was able to neutralize the Big Gunz and they didn't have much of an effect. However, his army is designed to deliver a 1-2 punch, the Blitz brigades double and shoot, in the meantime, the mobs double until they can engage.

Then it was a matter of statistics. The sheer volume of shots was quite telling. So although I was able to keep him far enough away so as to not use his CC values, let's face it, with 40+ chances to do some damage with his FF, my units aren't that big that they can absorb that many hits.

My Jetbikes are warming up for this Wed. >:)

I can hardly wait. ? :8):

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

Honda

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:58 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

@Tactica

The end game of that one doesn't even need to be played out IMHO. However, if Shawn is up for it - please - give it a go and let us know how it works out!

Well, my whole point in having the "other" 5 Aces proponents play this game is for them to convince themselves. I am fairly certain of what the result would be, but in order to eliminate any bias I might have or give others reason to question the result, I'd rather that they prove their case.

Again, the TS is situationally effective. If you have a lot of targets that it's good at, you clean up. If you let the Tigersharks fly uncontested across the board and shoot as they may, you clean up. However, if you don't face those sets of conditions, then it appears to not have the outstanding value as stated previously.

In the interest of balance across all lists, should there be some sort of restriction on the AX-1-0? Yes.

Should the basic stats we've come up with be changed? No, I do not believe they should.

The only other viable option, as has been pointed out many times by others, is to limit them to one two ship formation in the entire list.

Then the "airheads" like you and I get what we want and we prevent the "power gamers" from abusing the list.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

Tactica

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:13 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

@Honda,

on all accounts.

I might add, something like 2 AX-1-0 per 3K points played (or something along those lines) would suit my tastes better.

That way, when my group decides to play the 4K, 5K, or greater games, my Tau can still hold up to the growing enemy armies without having a blanket limit on units.

Limit the quantity in the list per X points being played before changing their stats and/or points is the right move IMHO.

cheers,

_________________
Rob

Top

clausewitz

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:28 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

I had suggested formations of 2 for 400 points? You can't make the 5 Aces list with that, and the limitation is how many formations you can take within your 33% Air allocation. The extra 50 points in cost should cover the increased durability of the formation of two planes.

Top

Honda

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:42 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

The only point I would challenge is that in a 2700 point game, a player could still take four TS as it's under the 33% bar and I think for the lists that get threatened by the TS, four is probably as good as 5.

So in that case, Tactica's thoughts on one formation for every 3000 points would prevent that from happening.

Something to think about.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

clausewitz

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:16 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

I understand Honda. I wanted to suggest a possible solution that didn't set any artificial limit (other than cost and air allocation). IMO 2 formations of 2 AX-1-0's will not be able to do what the 5 Aces list does.

It's 3 less formations so the amount of BMs you can place in total is less.
Any failed activation will cost more, since that leaves just one formation.
You can hit less enemy formations a turn with just two aircraft formations.
Intercepting fighters can attack more than just one plane per activation.
The cost is slightly higher so you get less planes.

All in all I believe that those disadvatages will mean the AX-1-0 will become a useful unit, without allowing the (in some opinions) broken 5 Aces list.

Top

nealhunt

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:44 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

I think the "5 Aces" would do okay against that, mostly because it could shred the vehicles in short order.

Orks are only good at shedding BMs if 1) there are nobz in the formation and 2) the formation is still large. Vehicle formations have no nobz and low unit counts, which means they will be hard to rally and keep BMs when they do. If you break them decisively they are out of the game for at least 2 turns.

4 AX10s is enough to break a blitz brigade unless rolls were really bad. 30cm flak on the way in means no AA fire and broken formation on the way out means no AA fire. They are essentially untouchable by that list.

Assuming 4 AX10 activations per turn, they can break either a Blitz Brigade or Stompa Mob per turn. As far as points, the Aces would pay for themselves in 2 turns.

Whether that would provide enough wiggle room for the rest of the army is debatable. Basically:

Points - yes.
Overall army ability - possibly.

It would probably be a fun and close game.

_________________
Neal

Top

Honda

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:29 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Ok, I understand where you are coming from and would support that proposal or the limiting of 2/3K.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Top

Dobbsy

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:59 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia

I'm favouring the x2 plane formation personally that CW is putting forth(although not at 400 points), but I also like the idea of a per X,000 limit for it that Honda is mentioning. It seems the activation count would be more balanced and like CW says you would place less blast markers in general. Even having to buy a x2 plane formation is quite expensive IMO and would definitely limit my spending on aircraft.

Neal - I can see it would be capable of breaking a BB but any specialised AT formation could likely do that, and it's not as if the Orks don't have stacks of fighter bombers available for CAP. Also, in turn, it's tough enough to break ork units as it is when they have numbers. You also have to remember that the Tau seem to succumb to the wilting-game quite quickly, so following that trend, it means their aircraft generally won't last too long either.

I think you'd find it would balance out in the end.

Top

HecklerMD

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:31 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am
Posts: 201

Are there any units in any Epic list that are sructured like this, IE X per XK points?

Might make it hard to make this stick w/o a precident, might seem too much like a special rule.

Top

Steele

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:53 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am
Posts: 423
Location: Duisburg , Germany

Quote (HecklerMD @ 01 Feb. 2006 (09:31))

Are there any units in any Epic list that are sructured like this, IE X per XK points?

Might make it hard to make this stick w/o a precident, might seem too much like a special rule.

To my knowledge not in an official List. In the Inquisition Taskforce Armylist there are more than one limit for units , e.g. 1 Inquisitor per 1000 Points a.s.o. You may have a look at the SG Forum Epic Discussion.

Cheers!
Steele

_________________
Quid pro Quo

Top

nealhunt

Post subject: Tau vs. Orks

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:37 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Neal - I can see it would be capable of breaking a BB but any specialised AT formation could likely do that, and it's not as if the Orks don't have stacks of fighter bombers available for CAP.

Well, yeah, there are lots of variables in army design but I was replying to a comment about that specific list.

I think you'd find it would balance out in the end.

I think that's what I said.

"It would probably be a fun and close game."

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests

Tau vs. Orks

Who is online