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Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Honda

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:59 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Prologue:

This is not intended to be a harsh criticism, only a desire to understand an aspect of the list design.

So, without further ado...

Is it a design feature to create what I perceive as a vulnerability to aircraft in the Necron list?

Now, before I get jumped on about the power of a pylon, and believe me, I'm willing to be educated on that, it seems like 200 points is an awful lot to spend for what you get. That and since there aren't any other options, if you want aircraft insurance, then you have to take at least two (400 pts) so that some modicum of mutual protection exists. Otherwise, the single unit is just begging to be assaulted.

1. I know, if it hits, it will savage most aircraft/DC sized flyers, however, its odds are no better than flipping a coin. I'm also aware that it has an awesome TK weapon, however, its chances to hit are also a flip of a coin and based on the boards I normally play on, having 120 cm range isn't that significant an advantage because of blocking terrain.

2. It's immobile. I'm Ok, with that, but at the same time I see it's vulnerability to teleporting troops as more than just a nuisance. Now that statement is made based on the assumption that it does not get to use the Gauss Arc stuff if it is assaulted and in base to base contact. Is that assumption correct? I know, you can support one with more, but that then means I'm spending more for a one-hit wonder to keep it alive.

3. Would it not be possible to add a +6 AA attack to the Obelisk for little or no cost increase?

Would be interested in what others think.

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Honda

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:08 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

1. When firing flak, the terrain is ignored. So the pylon creates a 240cm kill zone. If there is 2, then most likely any ship entering the board will be shot down.

I'm not debating the range (actually it's 120 cm) or the line of sight for AA, so I apologize for not stating my question correctly. However, the MW shot will most likely encounter blocking terrain that will cut down the overall range.

2. Its war engine. So it can choose whether or not it will use CC weapons or FF weapons. And since it has living metal and fearless, you better destroy it by hitting or it will teleport off and come back next turn somewhere else. Very effective defence on immobile system.

My bad if I mis-interpreted the WE rules. If what you say is correct (and I'm not debating that, I'll look that up), then that helps. However, I was not aware that a teleporting unit could leave the table after entering. I will check that as well as I don't believe a teleport unit can "teleport" off the table.

3. I'd be intrested to see some play testing with pylon first. Try it out and do a batrep.

Working on it, but first I have to construct some Pylons. Yes, I know I can proxy, but I'd rather not.

Now I actually play with Tyranids. I have a friend that plays the Necron. So this means that we have never tested the AA capability of pylon. However I have just started to make a marine army. And when thats sufficiently done I'm sure I will find out the effectiveness of pylon.

JMO, but I think the Eldar would eat the Pylon for lunch. However, play test will tell.

Thanx for your feedback

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Legion 4

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:35 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

Nice to see F/W make some Epic Necrons ... just a thought ... :;):

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tneva82

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:25 am

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Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:17 pm
Posts: 606

Quote (Hena @ 24 Jan. 2006 (20:07))

2. Its war engine. So it can choose whether or not it will use CC weapons or FF weapons.

Which is only good if there's stands not in CC. Most teleporters are CC specialists yes? And those don't have problem of getting into CC with pylon...

Yes he could USE the FF but he can't hit anybody who is in CC with him despite that.

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nealhunt

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:33 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

The Pylon is a WE and therefore cannot phase out.

Note that with the exception of the C?tan, no Necron War Engines phase out.

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corey3750

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:18 pm

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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Baltimore MD

Yes, the Pylon cannot Phase out... it would be entirely too cheesy otherwise. :cool:

It is true that there is a vulnerablity to air power for the Necron.

They don't have aircraft (nor will they ever), and they aren't exactly overburdened with flak.

At the moment, I don't see this as a serious problem for a couple of reasons.

1. Most air formations are small. 2-3 models. A pair of Pylons has an excellent chance of ruining someone's day with them. They are less effective against the massive squadrons that Orks can run in, but you can't be strong at everything.

2. One of the most serious, and effective uses of Air is with a Transport. Pylons are Death to these transports, as a single one is capable (though not always likely) of knocking them out of the sky. A pair vastly improves your chances of killing said transport, and most people I've talked to are of the opinion that it's simply not worth the risk to field a transport while there are Pylons on the table. So the Pylon is extremely effective at denial.

3. Necron are exremely good at assault with their infantry. I'm working with the Obelisks to make them more effective at shooting as well. But with all their advantages, they need to have an offsetting weakness, and I think that Air power is a good one to have.

I have considered improving the AA ability of the Pylon to slightly offset the fact that it's the only AA platform.

But to be honest I haven't fielded Necron's often enough with enemy air power to get a good feel of how much of an effec they will have on the game.

I'll try to work on that before I move, and would appreciate any imput from those of you who are willing to subject yourselves to air strikes. :angry:

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jfrazell

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:26 pm

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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144

[quote="Honda,24 Jan. 2006 (22:08)"]
JMO, but I think the Eldar would eat the Pylon for lunch. However, play test will tell.

We'll test that theory soon enough over grown toaster boy ? :devil:

With the evil range of that puppy most of your eldar opponents will have to stretch to hit it before it puts a major cramp on their style-most of our range weaponry is much shorter. Ironically bombers might be an effective, albeit dangerous, method of flak supression.

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Honda

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:51 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

We'll test that theory soon enough over grown toaster boy

With his last dying breath, he whispered, "Don't take my Bling-Bling".

You Sammy Hagarites are on the endangered species list.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

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jfrazell

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:15 pm

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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 144

looking forward to it refrigerator boy. :blues:

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hiddenevil

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:48 am

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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:59 am
Posts: 67
Location: Sydney, Australia

how about if the obelisk had a short range 6+ aa attack. just a sugestion

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Hojyn

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:19 pm

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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:52 am
Posts: 876
Location: Brest - France

1. ?Most air formations are small. ?2-3 models. ?A pair of Pylons has an excellent chance of ruining someone's day with them. ?They are less effective against the massive squadrons that Orks can run in, but you can't be strong at everything.

2. ?One of the most serious, and effective uses of Air is with a Transport. ?Pylons are Death to these transports, as a single one is capable (though not always likely) of knocking them out of the sky. ?A pair vastly improves your chances of killing said transport, and most people I've talked to are of the opinion that it's simply not worth the risk to field a transport while there are Pylons on the table. ?So the Pylon is extremely effective at denial.

3. ?Necron are exremely good at assault with their infantry. ?I'm working with the Obelisks to make them more effective at shooting as well. ?But with all their advantages, they need to have an offsetting weakness, and I think that Air power is a good one to have.

I agree with Corey on these points. I haven't played with Necrons yet (I'm still building my army), but just reading the army list, I must say that the Pylon looks very effective to me.

Sure it's expensive, but it's well worth its cost. That, and I also think that (relative) vulnerabilty to aircraft is a "thematic" weakness for this army.

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rargh

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:02 pm

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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:11 pm
Posts: 47

Hi guys,

I must admit that I've been considering the same thoughts over the past couple of weeks and while I can see the merits of an inherent weakness of weak AA for the necrons, I think that making the pylons the only AA weapon may be a bit much.

They're best deployed in pairs for mutual defence which means that you're looking at 400 points worth of WE if you want AA that has survivability!

I had the same idea as hiddenevil - perhaps make the Monolith's arc AA as well, say 15cm 6+ AA? Most armies wouldn't have more than 3-4 and you're really only going to get hit if you fly over the top of one. That means the monoliths will most likely only get to shoot if they are being attacked themselves.

My concern is that the Necrons have a (another) design weakness in a lack of transports. This is offset by the portal rules obviously but it means that the monolith (portals) are a crucial part of both bringing back phased out formations and providing mobility.

If I don't take pylons, any opponent worth their salt will go portal hunting with their flyers. If I take pylons I have to tie up a lot of points.

just a few thoughts..

R

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corey3750

Post subject: Necron Vulnerability To Aircraft

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:42 pm

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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 525
Location: Baltimore MD

It's all about trade offs.

If you take a pair of Pylons, and put them 6cm away from each other, they will be able to cover each other from assaults, and provide a double strength defense Umbrella.

Is this expensive?

Yes.

But they are expensive because, in addition to it's FREE automatic AA shots, it has a 120cm TK(d3) finger of death to smack around ground WE, or outright kill some other ground target.

They also function as an Area Denial weapon to enemies with Transport Air. In fact, they neutralize it just as effectively by keeping it off the board as by killing it. What's more, you can USE the Pylons to control what your enemy does.

If he has a Marine army with a couple of Thunderhawks, or maybe a Lander, he is going to NEED to use them. They undoubtly represent a significant portion of his army list.

That means he's going to HAVE to go after your pylons. And belive me, knowing what your enemy is going after can be a large part of winning.

Monolith AA isnt' a workable idea because it's just NOT something they do. Yes, a smart enemy targets your Monoliths. But if you have a pair of Pylons, that's a dangerous proposition.

And don't forget, the fact that Monolith's are targets is the reason that the Tomb Complex was added to the list. The Complex can't be destroyed, so you will always have at least one way to get troops on the board. That's saved the day for me in at least one game. :blues:

I also think I should point out that the Aircraft invulnerability helps an enemy compensate for the incredibly mobility that the army is capable of.

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