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Fear God and Dreadnought!

 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:19 am 
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CC -  I must confess to my Absence from Duty here.  My mitigation is strong, however, and I beg the Admiral for forgiveness!

That was SWEET!  Great reports, I really enjoyed them.  The torpedo raid in particular sounds very exciting with lots of "fog of war" and I really liked the way you didnt know about the damege before the next batte - great twist!

Its that sort of naval gaming that got me into coastal forces (MTBs and Eboats) and away from the "hum-drum" of Lines of Battle.

Sounds like you and your friends are really enjoying yourselves which is fantastic.  WW1/Ironclad era naval gaming is usually quite rare so its great to see new converts!

Keep up the good work Admiral - and somebody give those Destroyer Capitans some medals for God's sake!  :D

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:21 am 
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Lastly is anyone is interested in seeing how one of the battleships of this era actually looks like visit this website.  The Mikasa is a Museum in Japan.

Mikasa


And she is beautiful too - I have walked her timbered decks!
She is berthed in Yokosuka, south of Tokyo

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:37 am 
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Ok I feel much better now. ?Thank you all.

The reason I was looking for pity is because I just completed a long project to get ALL the WWI data into spreadsheet form to be used by "The Program." ?(You know we should name the darn thing)

I'm still missing the ship data but I had the record book taken for Lamont could complete the weeks scenario. ?The programing staff also had to see if they could deal with my ship data format. ?It was takling me 20 minutes to input one ship, so I changed the format. ?

Along with all the data I created a new and improved Ship Record sheet that auto populates all the fields once you type in the name of the ship.

Here is my work to date. ?For all you excel guros knock yourself out. ?Off course I only have three ship classes inputted so far. ?

I'm the vlookup/pivot table master hear me roar. ? :p

Upon my hitting the reply button I have discovered that excel files cannot be loaded. ?Oh well sorry...

Tas,

We hope to do more "small scale" actions in the future. ?The program is perfect for these smaller ships. ?But right now we are slowy building for a Dogger Bank game at a convention in Sept.






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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 2:00 am 
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Sounds like a lot o work, but that will be a greta asset now its done.  Record keeping is the bane of navla wargamign and your "program" sounds like an ideal moderating tool

Dogger Bank?  Excellent! One of my favourites... :;):

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:37 pm 
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We played our game this weekend...

All I can say is "The Horror, The Horror!!"

I will never be permitted to command a ship ever again.  :{


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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:37 pm 
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Quote (Cuban Commissar @ 18 2005 July,19:37)
We played our game this weekend...

All I can say is "The Horror, The Horror!!"

I will never be permitted to command a ship ever again. ?:{

Good grief - what happened CC?  :o

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 10:51 pm 
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The Admiralty awaits your dispatches with great anticipation, Captain! :;):

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:27 am 
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Quote (Cuban Commissar @ 18 2005 July,10:37)
We played our game this weekend...

All I can say is "The Horror, The Horror!!"

I will never be permitted to command a ship ever again. ?:{

CC, just blame me. My weekend went very odd so maybe it was further bleed-off from me.

You will do better on your next game.  :;):

dafrca

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:53 pm 
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I'm typing the story up now.

But someone double check the these odds for me...

22% Followed by a
30% Followed by a
9% Followed by a
30% equals a total possible percent of...

(.22x.3x.09x.3) = .2%

is that right?


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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:58 pm 
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0.1782%, to be precise :p


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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:00 am 
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Quote (Magnus @ 19 2005 July,18:58)
0.1782%, to be precise :p

Ow, don't rub it in  :p

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:15 pm 
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In 1 November 1914 the British navy suffered its first defeat in 100 years when Admiral Spee led the German East Asia squadron against the British squadron of Admiral Cradock, off the coast of Chile. ?Both British armored cruisers were sunk that night in the Battle of Coronel. ?This defeat incited the British navy to send two Battlecruisers, superior in every way to the German cruisers, to hunt down and destroy the East Asia Squadron, which they did at the Battle of the Falklands.

Winston Churchill, the master of verse, wrote this concerning the engagement

??and now began the saddest naval action of the war?Of the officers and men in both the squadrons that faced each other in these stormy seas so far from home, nine out of ten were doomed to perish. ?The British were to die that night; the Germans a month later.?

We set off to replay this famous encounter with a few twists. ?The first was the inclusion of the old battleship HMS Canopus into the British force. ?Historically Admiral Cradock had left the Canopus behind because of her incredibly slow speed of 12 knots. ?While the British knew the German East Asia squadron was on the loose they suspected that the Germans were still far to the West. ?The British were in these waters chasing down the German light Cruiser Leipzig. ?She had been a threat to merchant shipping in the Eastern Pacific sense the start of the war and Cradock was to find her and sink her. ?As such Canopus was over 300 miles away when the battle took place.

The Germans did not have the Light Cruiser Nurnberg in our battle. ?Se was 25 miles away when the battle occurred and did not take part in the battle proper. ?She was the ship that placed the final shots into the crippled the Monmouth. ?The British forces did not contain the armed merchant cruiser Otranto, for no better reason than we didn?t have the proper model.

So the forces arrayed were this:

Germans:

CR Scharnhorst
Scharnhorst Stats
Scharnhorst Model

CR Gneisenau
Gneisenau Mini

CL Leipzig
Leipzig Stats
Leipzig Mini
Leipzig Model

CL Dresden
Dresden Stats

Dresden Mini

British

ACR Good Hope
Good Hope Stats

Good Hope Mini

ACR Monmouth
Monmouth Stats

CL Glasgow
Glasgow Stats

Glasgow Mini

OBB Canopus
Canopus Stats

The two forces were a very mixed lot The Germans were experienced professionals both ships having won gunnery competitions in peace time, both the German cruisers were modern and top of the line even though the entire Armored Cruiser class had become obsolete with the advent of the Battlecruiser. ?The German cruisers each had x8 - 8.2 inch guns, 4 in two turrets and 4 in casemates along the side. ?The Good Hope was an older ship with an awkward gun arrangement. ?With only two 9.2 inch guns and huge number of 6? guns. ?Monmouth was similar with 14 6? guns. ?The Good Hope was manned by reservist that had only recently been activated. ?With the difference in crew quality in mind the Germans were given an improved gunnery modifier. ?The Good Hope was given a negative modifier in her Gunnery while the remaining British ships used the standard modifiers as they were manned by regular crews.

The last thing we modified from the historical fight was the time of day and visibility. ?The battle took place at dusk and in a clear day. We were to fight at lower visibility and during the day,

With all in place the game began?

I commanded the Germans from the bridge of the Scharnhorst. ?The Germans were in line formation heading due South to Cape Horn, hoping to escape into the South Atlantic; one step closer to Germany. ?My plan for the battle was simple with our superior gunnery, speed, and weaponry we should be able to easily handle the two older British ships. ?When they were dealt with we would deal with the real challenge, the Canopus. ?We used blind movement for the first couple of turns until suddenly the British Squadron appeared to the West of us heading South-West. ?

With the visibility being what it was we emerged from the fog at relatively close range. ?Soon after spotting each other the first shots were fired. ?Scharnhorst opened fire on the Good Hope. ?The Gneisenau could not see a target and had to wait her time. ?The Scharnhorst saw large waterspouts emerge around her as the Good Hope opened up with her main guns. ?The British were on course to cross our T but I was not concerned as it would take them a while, until then we were in a good position being able to bring our broadside to bear. ?

As the two squadrons headed toward each other the superior German gunners proved their worth. ?By the second salvo the Scharnhorst had scored hits on the Good Hope. ?The only disappointment was the relatively small damage done by our 8? guns. ?But still the Good Hope and soon the Monmouth were locked in our sights and there was no escape for them. ?The Germans soon scored the first critical hit of the game when an 8? shell smashed into the aft turret of the Good Hope. With that hit the Good Hope had just lost half her long range fire power. ?

All things were not going well for the Germans. ?Our light cruisers proved to be inferior the British Light Cruiser. Glasgow was a new light cruiser with 6? guns. ?Our light cruisers were of older design and had the same weakness of all German Light Cruiser in that they only carried 4? guns. ?This was not corrected by the Germans until 1916. ?As such even though the two light cruisers concentrated upon the Glasgow, ? they could not penetrate her armor. ?I was fearful of sending then in close. ?I imagined if the came closer Good Hope and the Monmouth would target them and blow them out of the water. ?As such the German lights cruisers stayed in line behind the Armored Cruisers pelting away at the Glasgow but causing more irritation than damage.

At this point and slightly to our surprise the Canopus appeared out of the fog. ?Not behind the British Squadron but on a bearing straight in front of the German Squadron and heading due North. ?She was apparently attempting to catch up when she stumbled onto the battle. ?Not yet ready to deal with the battleship, I ordered my squadron into a 90? turn due West. ?They would again expose the British to our full broadside and I was confident we would soon cripple the British Cruisers. ?The British now emboldened by their battleship, changed course due East and both cruiser squadrons were crossing each other in perfect parallel. ?

At first it seemed that my strategy would work as we continued to score hits on the British ships while their return fire was much less effective. ?I was somewhat worried when an even larger type of waterspout emerged around the Scharnhorst. This signaled to me that the Canopus had opened fire. ?Still I was not worried; she was at long range and only had one turret to bear. ?I had ordered my squadron to 20 knots and soon we would outpace the threat of the ungainly ship. ?It was then that I got my first indication that something had gone wrong in our perfect battle.

It started with the Dresden. ?The Glasgow scored a hit and the 6? shell of the British Light Cruiser tore through her weak armor and damaged the rudder. ?The Dresden was now reduced to 8 knots and locked into her current course until it was repaired. ?At this speed even the brick of the Canopus could run her down. ?But even now still I was confident, the battle was focused on the cruisers. ?When the cruisers won the battle and we would save our crippled comrade. ?It was at that point the German suffered a calamity and the course of history was changed. ?This disaster was befalling upon me the German commander and the ship I commanded by the threat I had discounted upon entering the battle, the Good Hope and her secondary batteries of 6? guns.

In reading the history of this battle I walked away with the impression that the British ships were inferior to the Germans. ?The battle was very one sided with the Germans sustaining minimal damage. ?As such I felt that we could drive into the British ships and take them out with ease. ?Upon further reading and greater reflection my opinion has changed. ?The battle was won more by the circumstances of the time and the weather than by an apparent technological gap between the forces. ? ?

During our run to the south it appears we wandered into the medium range band of the 6? batteries on Good Hope and Monmouth. ?Now both ships are armed with a huge battery of 6? guns. ?The Good Hope could bring 8 to bear on her broadside. ?I really believed I had nothing to fear from these guns. ?They were secondary armaments, not to be compared to real main guns. ?Well I was totally wrong. ?

The British ruled the navy and this night they proved how. ?After careful review of the stats post game I must declare that the British made an incredible gun. ?With its APC ammo the gun is almost as effective as the German 8? guns. ?The difference between my ability to penetrate the British ships vs. their ability to penetrate my armor was only a 1,500 yard margin, a very small margin in naval combat. ?At this point we also became aware how the awkward design of the Good Hope works to its fullest. ?In the game a huge number of guns firing not only increases your chance hit also had a huge multiplier to your damage. ?It now appears I ordered my squadron to turn to late for we had drifted into excellent range for the 6? guns and there were lots pointed at us.

Shortly after the squadrons turned to parallel, the Good Hope opened up with tremendous broadside of eight 6? guns. ?Despite the lack of experience of her crew she scored a hit. ?I was shocked to learn not only was it a hit it had torn through my armor. ?Dismayed I asked ?Are you sure your not reading from your 9? gun stats?!? This volley from these lonely casemate guns inflicted terrible carnage upon my flagship. ?Still all was not lost the Scharnhorst could sustain this damage for a short while and soon I would ensure that those pesky guns wouldn?t bother me again. ?A little speed and all would be well?.I never got the chance to play out my next hand. ?

It appears that one of these 6? shells hit my fore turret igniting the powder within and striking at just the moment when fresh shells were being hoisted up the elevator. ?The flash fire traveled down the elevator shaft and ignited her magazine. ?The explosion was massive and in an instant there was nothing left of the proud Scharnhorst but an immense cloud of smoke. ?Admiral Spee was dead and with him any hope for victory.

Gneisenau was now alone and hunted. Her bow wake was frothing white as she increased speed to get away. ?But she would not escape without a token scaring from the British. ?A second 6? broadside tore into her aft turret. ?She was spared Scharnhorst?s horrible fate by the timely action of her crew, who flooded the magazine. ?But still her aft turret, the only one now pointed toward the enemy, was a smoking ruin. ?

Within the span of a few minutes the once proud squadron was a battered and broken force. ?The victims of and outdated ship, with a reservist crew, and an eight gun broadside of 6? guns.

The Gneisenau sped to the West with Leipzig behind. ?The Dresden crippled by a shattered rudder would fall into British hands. ?There would no last charge here as we saw with the Breslau. ?The morale of the German force was simply broken and history had been re written. ? ?

For more information

German East Asia Squadron

Coronel

Falklands

Hope you enjoyed.






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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:45 pm 
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Whew - thanks CC, this was a treat - interesting, the effect of those barbettes!

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:22 pm 
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As usual CC, a very entertaining and interesting battle report! I think it's safe to say you'll never again discount the value/threat of secondary armament.   :)

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 Post subject: Fear God and Dreadnought!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:58 pm 
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Rule Brittania!

Now you know why secondary armament was nasty if you could get it into range. ?And becuas everyone stayed outside its range, the concept was later deleted to have more primary armamane tguns

Two things that most naval players dont not realise until they have played a few games:

1) All Naval warships are very susceptible to critical hits (the Golden BB effect). ?There are many, mny examples throughout history. ?exmples include Bismarck's rudder hit, Prince of Wales's 'A Bracket' torpedo hit, Carrier hanger fires etc etc.

2) See Note 1, this is even more true for Dreadnought era ships!

This is something only hard experience can teach you, and your research into your games has been quite outstandingly detailed.

Kommodore, the Kaiser and the Imperial Naval Staff are most displeased by your failure in not only loosing our East Asia squadron, but also in failing to inflcit any significant damage to the corresponding British Fleet during the action.

However, this is shaping up to be a long war, and the "it'll be over Christmas' campaigners have ceased their inane chatter. ?Report back to Fleet HQ at Williamshaven for further tactical training and Reassignment. :)

Great AAR. ?I am thoroughly enjoying your foray into this genre. ?Your detailed reports make it just like I was there.

Thanks!:;):





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