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space marine army lists and points value differences - why?

 Post subject: space marine army lists and points value differences - why?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:24 pm 
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hello

just a newbie with a typical newbie question

i am looking at the Salamander list in the rule pack and the pdf on the forum and the list in the compendium. why are they all different and why are the points values for certain troop types different whilst being the same values stats-wise.

whirlwinds and thunderhawks, and assault troop are not the same points costs as other lists but the same stats??

what is the latest up to date list for Salamanders?

all the best

fritz


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 Post subject: Re: space marine army lists and points value differences - w
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:58 pm 
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I guess you should be using the Salamanders list in the compendium? Not sure, it says 1.1 but in the forum thread that developed the list, the latest is 1.13.2. The dates in that thread are older than the compendium, so just use that.

This can be confusing. I think the main point I'd make is that the variant lists are for different play styles: you don't have to match your chapter color and markings to the army list. There's no way to know this without asking, no preface or statement in the army lists that explains why it exists, but Codex Astartes armies are meant to be largely airborne: lots of Thunderhawks and Drop Pods. Scions of Iron are the Space Marine tank+Rhino list. No one actually paints theirs as that chapter, they just use the list if they like tanks. They usually emphasize something different, and may have unique units - there are too many of those to put in one single list. It'd be difficult to balance a list that had every chapter's unique options in it for tournament play - that's what the lists are really for. In informal games, feel free to mix and match a bit.

You can read the development thread for the Salamanders list to see what the logic was. See the second post on this page:
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=17374&start=150


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 Post subject: Re: space marine army lists and points value differences - w
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Hey Fritz,

You should be using the Salamanders list from the Tournament Pack here.
All "completed" lists (what we call Approved) are mastered there for lack of a better term (other than AMTL which is due to ... disagreements). Occasionally there comes up with a tweak to test out on an approved list (recently the Death Korps had one) that ends up with a version in the development forums until approved / finalized but that's a pretty rare thing. The Compendium PDF is over 2 years old now so lists that in flux under dev are best handled from their respective list thread (a complete list for marines is here).

As carlisimo109 noted, the lists are individualized for a particular theme that is exemplified by the eponymous force. It is however not limited to use with forces modeled that way mind you. Most people, unless you'e Elsmore, Apoc, or moredakka ;), have a single nice army collection with enough options to be fielded under several lists as they like.

Newer lists such as the Iron Hands and Imperial Fists contain a short preamble that's a statement of purpose (or I should better state, marine lists have this enforced, other ACs can speak for themselves). We've not gone back and edited the existing ones with such a statement but I will make sure that happens to ease understanding.

Points per unit, nature of composition of formations, what's compulsory and what's not, etc are all things up to the individual list theme. Sometimes units are completely gone in one list (iron Hands don't field terminators on their own) or more expensive or larger or what not as part of the theme balancing of the list itself (if you've got specific question, feel free to ask). However, when a unit is different from the "common" version, the name will be prefixed with an indicator e.g. Blood Angels Rhino vs Rhino. Regardless of unit, weapons are always standardized. A multi-melta is a multi-melta.

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: space marine army lists and points value differences - w
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:33 pm 
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hi

thanks for the reply. that thread clears up a lot of my thoughts/concerns. i can now go forward and start basing/painting my epic stuff.

cheers


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