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What Aspects are hot and not?

 Post subject: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:10 am 
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Hi folks,

My 2 favourite aspects are Striking Scorpions and Warp Spiders, Scorpions as they were the first 40K model I painted and Warp Spiders because of the cool jump generator and their guns.

I'm trying to work out how best to make up Aspect Formations. The limitation of transport for Warp Spiders means they are reduced to entering via a Wraithgate or footslogging at 15cm moves. The other option is bringing them in via Vampire.

What are you best aspect make ups and how do you deliver them?

D.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:29 am 
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I'm a big fan of Shining Spears. Run them with a couple jetbike fornatuions for support, and they're both fast and deadly.

The standard loadout for wave serpents seem to be a mix of Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons.

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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:34 am 
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Depends really
For Biel Tan - fire dragons, dark reapers, dire avengers

In lists with smaller aspects sizes - banshees, spiders, avengers, reapers

Not a fan of large spider formations, large CC formations, shining spears

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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:06 am 
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Thanks Steve. Will have to paint up some guardians as Dire Avengers and see how I can do.

D.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:12 am 
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This has been debated many times over the years. Much depends on the intended strategy for the army and the potential targets. I disagree slightly with Steve on the better Aspects, but that goes to show that in general the Aspects abilities are well balanced.

The aspects that I consider better are Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons and Striking Scorpions. Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears are more specialised so less frequently used. Warp Spiders are generally considered the best because of Infiltrate, armour and First Strike FF attack, while Howling Banshees struggle because of weaker armour and the need to get into CC to get their First Strike attack.

  • Warp Spiders are generally considered the best despite the transport nerf, as they have 4+ armour and First Strike FF. Infiltrate means that they can threaten a large area if placed centrally, but their various abilities mean that they do not combine easily with other Aspects.
  • Striking Scorpions and Dire Avengers are the traditional Aspects for greatest impact in assaults. Their main drawback is the lack of shooting capacity.
  • Fire Dragons are a favourite because of their MW assault and shooting capacity. They are also slightly contentious as the location of the Exarch and Autarch as there is a debate whether the extra attack also has MW. E-UK has allowed this for many years without issue, though I do not believe this has been adopted by Net-EA and I do not know the position of the French or other lists.
  • Shining Spears main target is RA formations, though their mobility also makes them usefull objective grabbers. RA targets are usually limited which reduces their effectiveness a little, but they can be added to other Aspects reducing the transport requirements and 4+ armour makes them a better choice for Exarch and Autarch
  • Dark Reapers provide ranged firepower against infantry, and this is also usefull for laying BMs. But their ineffectiveness against armour and single dice in assault does limit their use a little, which is why they are less frequently used.
  • Swooping Hawks are usefull for teleporting into remote areas of the battlefield. Their single attack and weaker armour means that they have to pick on smaller formations and capture objectives, which in turn means they are more specialist, though they can also be used to reduce the cost of transport in mixed Aspect formations
  • Howling Banshees are generally considered the weakest Aspect. This is because they are CC specialists with weaker armour. To reduce enemy impact on them, they need to destroy their target with First Strike, or pick on remote enemy formations which usually restricts their usefulness. This tactical imperative also means they do not combine well with any other aspect.

My favourite formation is possibly 3x Striking Scorpions, 3x Dire Avengers and 2x Fire Dragons upgraded to be Exarchs / Autarch and mounted in Wave Serpents. Note I use the E-UK lists allowing the formation 4x MW attacks in assault.

I also frequently use Shining spears and Warp Spiders with supporting Bike formations, but rarely use Swooping Hawks, Dark Reapers or Howling Banshees for the reasons stated above, though I have tried all these in the past.


Last edited by Ginger on Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:21 am 
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Wow thanks Ginger! Well at least my lovely Warp Spiders aren't completely useless. Will have to get a full 8 stand formation of them in the long term.

D.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:49 am 
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IMO Warp Spiders Infiltrate with First Strike FF and good armour arguably makes them arguably the best EA formation for clipping assaults. This is because infiltrate or Vampires enable them to be placed to best advantage allowing them to concentrate on a small part of the enemy formation. This in turn minimises enemy fire and their armour reduces the damage further.

I should add that I measure the effectiveness of the formation by the number of times they can be used against enemy targets as well as the impact, and also their "threat factor" - the degree to which they limit enemy activity by their presence. So Artillery becomes more effective as the range increases because they can hit a target more often and potentially deny the enemy those parts of the table that they can hit.

Warp Spiders rate quite highly on foot and even better in a Vampire because they have a 45cm threat range (due to infiltrate) which becomes a 90cm 'bubble' in the centre of the table. Their clipping ability and armour means they can be used effectively at least twice in a 3-4 turn game which usually means they earn their cost quite easily.

However, others may well disagree (like Steve). I must stress that this is my opinion based on how I play, and you should note that I do not do as well as others, though I claim that is due to poor dice ;)


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:53 pm 
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I used 2 full hosts of Spiders to great success at the EEC, but that list was very focused on firefights - 2 Storm Serpents and 3 Jetbikes to maneuver and support, the spider hosts and a Warlock to provide the punch. The Spiders chewed through a lot of stuff, and are also pretty tough (for Eldar at least) - 8 4+ save infantry that are still very dangerous even after a few casualties.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Thanks Ulrik, your input is much appreciated.

D.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:58 pm 
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I like Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks, IMO they are the Paras of the Eldar. I like Dark Reapers also for their firepower. In the old days, they were great tank hunters ...

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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:15 pm 
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they are all pretty decent formations, with some being more specialised than the rest, some work better as standalone formations than others (swooping hawks, warp spiders, shining spears) but you can get all kinds of weird and wonderful combinations going on..... at a recent UK tournament, Kev101 took two formations with 4x swooping hawks, 2x fire dragons (with exarchs) and 2x dire avengers, this meant he only needed 2 wave serpents and didn't lose any mobility, his third formation was 4 howling banshees, 2 wave serpents and 4 shining spears, he managed 3-1-1 with it (including the scalps of current and former UK champions RichardL and dptdexys)

I think if used right, they can all be devastating, some are harder to do it with is all!

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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:13 am 
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Hi Daemonkin, to echo what has been said it really comes down to how you want to use them. And then trying out a bunch of things to see how they go. I've had some great results with 4 banshees and 4 dire avengers in wave serpents. The Banshees for their 2+cc and the dire avengers for their extra attack.

That being said they are less useful if they get charged themselves but the Banshees are brilliant just not very sturdy... but if you want survivability by terminators Hah!

I didn't rate shining spears very much at all... until I was picked apart by them piece meal! All of the aspects can be brilliant when applied at the decisive point of your choosing. The trick is just how to make them last that long to get there.

Ulriks tactics for warp spiders should be enshrined in a data slate! That is brilliant!

Eldar aspects are great simply because of the niche roles that each of them fill. I personally dont like mixing the role of the unit too much (but thats only because I want to stay true to the GW mantra of in the far distant future there is only single combat functions - im looking at you assault terminators! I mean honestly who goes to war with just a hammer!), but obvioulsy kev 101 did alright with his mixed formations.

Happy shunting with your warp spiders!


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Looking at the Epic-UK lists for BT the most common formation seems to be
4 Dire Avengers
2 Exarch/Autarch Fire Dragons
2 Dark Reapers

I think most of that has been covered above. Though it seems a lot of people are talking about scorpions over dark reapers. Presumably it's because those units are being used very aggressively so the scorpions being up in peoples grill is better than the shooting ability from reapers.

Anyone got any good examples of conversions for shining spears? I've heard of a few people just using the banner poles from the old square epic bases to be lances but not seen anything else. Any changes to the jetbikes themselves as the spears ones in 40k are a bit more ornate from memory.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:40 pm 
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I'll be converting Shining SPears from standard jetbikes with some pointy bits on the wings and plasticard for a spear.

D.


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 Post subject: Re: What Aspects are hot and not?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Scorpions give you the option of base contacting stuff which is good in ff yet weak in cc like most battle tanks, and dark reapers mean you can actually shoot stuff and prep for other engagements while still being handy in a firefight.... personally I like 8 warp spiders out of a gate or a mix of 4 avengers and 4 fire dragons

The reason why warp spiders are so good in people's opinion is because they are great and winning engagements where they can clip, however unlike most other aspects they arent actually that great at killing stuff.... 4 avengers plus 4 fire dragons and 2 FD exarchs will most likely beat anything up to and including reaver-sized titans and do a fair bit of damage in the process, not the case with warp spiders....

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