From discussions at the GT and AGM over problems in lists the following changes will be made to the relevant lists for the 2018 tournament season. I'll update this thread when the list pdfs are changed.

Krieg
When a Commissar is added to a formation it must be placed in a Command stand if possible

World Eaters
' with transport' added to the WE retinue. Removes dreadclaw/rhino upgrades

Iron Warriors
Chaos Hunter added to Armoured Co, Vindicator Co. 1 for 50 pts, 2 for 75
Basilisk formation changed to 275pts

All Space Marine lists
Thunderhawks moved to air/titan 1/3

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Ork Battlewagons for 25 points? Surely?

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Big Gunz don't fly!

I thought the Codec Marine list was being brought to heel as well? Wow 275 seems cheap for 4 strat 4, initiative 1+ double template artillery.

There's some other stuff being looked at (eg codex marines titan/air 1/3), these were just the immediate changes we wanted to make

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Could you not just do what the CSM list does and instead add a note saying the Krieg Commissar can only added to one of the units in the core formation and not placed in any upgraded units attached to it? This would solve the abuse of a commissar in a Gorgon.

Some people have commissars modelled on seperate stands from their commanders already and the proposed change would invalidate these, which isn't ideal. Also in the background (e.g. the Guant's Ghosts series which I've recently re-read) commissars often go off and inspire/lead the rank and file rather than necesarily hanging around the commanders.


I'd like to see this one too! Probably a reduction to a 6+ save for the Skorcha also.

That's not a bad shout Glyn, will chat to the others about this!

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Agreed on the 6+ Skorcha save (against my own interests).

My ideas for playtesting in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32724

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Big Gunz don't fly!

I should add that the Hunters in Vindicators is greeeeeaaat!

Those Basilsks might prove a bit too tasty though - 300 points for me.

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Big Gunz don't fly!

The only real pain with the hunter upgrade, is that the rest of the unit has 'walker' while it does not. Given they tend to spend a lot of their time lurking around in woods and ruins ideally any hunter could do with the same ability

My biggest issue with the Iron Warriors list was the lack of ground-based AA, so I'll take Hunters being added pretty much anywhere!

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Big Gunz don't fly!

If massed hordes of skorchas were winning every tournament going then I'd say yeah, give em a nerf, but right now they are just a good choice in a suboptimal list.... Give other areas a boost first

On the krief commissar changes I'd say the balance argument trumps fluff and the command stand is a good compromise, it's really not difficult to ignore a stand of rank and file with a commissar and remember he's actually on the command stand.... Its a price worth paying to avoid having 18DC of fearless 4+ RA in the list....

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If Commissariat Gorgons are a problem, this change wouldn't prevent Grenadier Gorgons.

How about just setting it so that Commssars aren't allowed on Gorgons?

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Agreed that the list needs a boost - but it also needs internal balance.

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Big Gunz don't fly!

Actually quite the opposite. The Grenadier co can turn the gorgon into a commissar because there isn't a command stand. Personally, I don't mind that as it boosts one of the weaker units in the army. We'll review though!

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If, as I suggested, the rule is Commissars can only be attached to a unit in the core formation and not any upgrades then Grenadiers couldn't have a Commissar Gorgon either as taking a Gorgon is an upgrade to the formation.

Really anyone who's used Commissars should hang their head in shame! They're meant to be leading and inspiring from the front not hiding in an empty transport while their charges go off to fight.