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EEC 2018 in Germany

 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:42 am 
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more pix please on those custom squats. Close-ups, especially.

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:04 am 
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leaxe wrote:
more pix please on those custom squats. Close-ups, especially.


Most of the models can be seen here:

https://brumbaer.de/3d-printing/52-squats.html

On the website are still the images of the "old" Iron Eagles. The tournament army contains the new ones, picture below:

Attachment:
IMG_0011.JPG
IMG_0011.JPG [ 368.1 KiB | Viewed 762 times ]


There is also a Cyclops model of which there re no pictures yet, but it hasn't been in the tournament army anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Norto wrote:
ENGLAND AGAINNNN!!!!!!

how boring hehehe.

Congrats to all. Hope you all had a great time.


To be fair it came down to which of the English team’s Scottish players beat the other :-)

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:09 pm 
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Have the Admins increased this website's server capacity in advance preparation of Dan's Euros report?!?!?!

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Congrats to all winners! Who painted the Iron warrior army?

Cool space-dwarfs brumbär! And thanks for the photos.


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:10 pm 
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The Iron Warriors were painted by my.

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Germany produced gorgeous armies - especially the Iron Warriors and Brumbaer's non-activating Squats.

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Last edited by Monkeyboy on Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:10 pm 
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Is nobody back yet? Come on, report, stat!

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:43 am 
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Customary Congratulations to the rampaging brits :)


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:00 am 
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Now that i'm back and somewhat recovered, here's how my games went.

I took tau this year, using a list i've had reasonable success with in it's 3-4k variants over the last couple of years. It's very mobile, can hit hard, and has a very durable and if need be quick BTS which i don't think i've ever lost as yet. It is however very Eldar like in it's durability, which does mean it needs to do quite a bit of hiding away normally to survive contact with the enemy.

Game 1: Martin (Black Legion) - German 1.
Martin had a solid Chaos army, replete with double death wheels and some solid retinues. The game played pretty cagey for turn 1, with a bit of sniping from both sides. Martin got the jump on me turn 2, which saw the kroot holding a key peice of ruins taken out, however this was initiated by his BTS, which had left it's cover to do this. I managed to get a couple of infantry units up to counter this and managed to annihilate his supreme commander's retinue and break the BTS, which did put Martin on the back foot somewhat. His efforts to swing this around a bit were hampered going into turn 3 when his terminators teleported in, and tried to assault some skimmer tanks. Some poor dice saw the assault bounce however, and in retaliation i was able to get a sweet crossfire on one of the death wheels, breaking it and taking it down to a single wound. I couldn't take out the BTS, but i did however manage to take the blitz and some other objectives for a 3-0 win.

Game 2: Per (Knights) - Sweden.
This game was a bit frustrating, not because of Per, but because almost nothing activated during the game. Certainly for me personally i've never had a game like it, with an activation rate of something in the region of 25%. Half my army never made it out of the deployment zone, with a couple of units not activating at all in 4 turns. Ended up a winning draw to Per, although i think with some more aggressive play it could have been a big win to him. Not much to say about this one really, as nothing really happened!

Game 3: Dennis (AMTL) - Sweden.
This one started similar to the previous, with me failing the first 3 activation rolls of the game - somewhat key as i was trying to get some of the hammerheads on overwatch in case Dennis ran at me with his warhounds. Cover proved problematic for me in this game especially, as it was lots of tiny woods - great for the titans, not so great when you're trying to hide a unit of tanks from a plasma totting warhound... I ended up playing very defensively for the first couple of turns, then once his BTS reaver came forward went full on at it, getting some solid crossfires. Some good saving kept it in the game, and he managed to repair the crit as it sat on 1 wound broken on his blitz. Ended up a 2-0 win to me turn 4 from blitz and take and hold.

Game 4: Matthias (Minervans) - Germany 2.
The fully armoured list was an interesting one, although for me it did suffer from a lack of durable formations. However, Matthias had some stellar rolling, starting with winning the strategy rolloff all 3 turns - not something i wanted to see with 2 units of manticores, and he sensibly broke 2 of my tank formations. I did my best in return to take out all of his smaller activations, however despite getting stuff within 30cm, they kept rallying regardless with impressive regularity. Plays made for the start of turns 2 and 3 were foiled by losing the strategy ratings, including a nice crossfire planned for the BTS from a macro unit, but such is life. The only positive with all of this was Matthias was often sustaining on my units, and so made little headway towards my half of the board. Ended up with all objectives in my half and none shall pass for a 2-0 on turn 3.

Game 5: Ben (Orks) - UK North.
Ben had taken an interesting list, although it did have a lot of fragile ground activations, which i did my best to take advantage of. We both had a very mixed set of dice, for instance my BTS advancing on a warband sitting in a ruin, doing 8 hits... which were all saved, and Ben then assaulting them and doing no wounds whatsoever, but breaking me anyway despite me being up 2 on the roll. In fairness i was just glad we hadn't gone to a second round of combat! It was however the Kroot which were the real stars, despite failing to activate for the first 2 turns, on turn 3 they finally assaulted the first set of big gunz, and then followed up in turn 4 after i won the strategy rolloff again taking out the other unit and blocking the way for the gargant to get back to the blitz. Ben made some solid attempts to clear units there, but in the end he didn't have the activations to do it, and the game ended a 2-1 to me in turn 4.

Overall an interesting tournament! I was overall reasonably pleased with how the Tau performed, even with the terrain giving it some serious issues (as there were very limited places you could hide even a unit of 4-5 tanks), hence the pretty grim looking VP balance.

Personally i'm not particularly keen on the scoring system (3pts win, 2pts winning draw, 1pt straight draw, 0pts losing draw/loss), as i both don't find it granular enough, and means if you have a particularly rough game (such as my game 2) and you still manage to hold it to a draw you still get nothing for it.

The tournament however was well run, and there were some good lunch options available as well, so i think overall Germany did a great job :)


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:11 am 
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Thank you, Richard! Great read. I agree on the scoring system. I felt cheated in my second game as well. Didn't see that coming up in advance, honestly, as I did not picture all possible combinations in regard to advantages with some armies over others in terms of which goals are realistic with say orcs vs eldar. Too complex. Only see it when you face it. Nevertheless a great tournament and flawlessly organized.

My report and the pictures from Sina will come up tonight most probably. She finished editing but they are still bloody big ;-)

Cheers
Carsten


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:13 am 
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I will not discuss terrain, because the meta ist different in different "circles", and while I can see on an intellectual level that having different "amounts and kinds" in different circles is a challenge and "good" for the game, I'm happy to complain about the terrain, if it is not what I'm used to, on a personal level :)

The Epic rules do not know a draw. If the game is not decided by objectives it will end in a tiebreak and the one who has more VP scored is declared winner. End of rules.
Rules-wise the win by VP is not less than a win by objectives. Like in Tennis where it doesn't matter how many sets you played to win.

So making it weaker than a victory by objectives is already a concession as ist the introduction of a minimum VP difference to score a win.

From the non-rules view, I like it because it will reflect that the one who lost more (read much more) VP would have lost anyway when the battle will commence in the next turn or next morning. It also has the players decide how much VP they are willing to sacrifice for gaining objectives. A Pyrrhic victory will still be a victory, but a Pyrrhic draw will not be a draw, but a loss.

If you know the rule and care to read it before the tournament, you can play by it.
And it will not influence army composition much. In contrast to scoring systems favouring quick victories.

For every guy who doesn't like it, because he "expected" a draw and got a loss, there will be one who likes it, because he got a (slightly lesser) win while expecting a draw.


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:32 am 
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I had a spare 20 mins this morning, so just for fun, I re-scored the event using the EpicUK scoring system (I did make a few assumptions that games ended after 3 turns which may skew things up or down a little)

interestingly enough, the top 6 players still occupy the top six slots, albeit in a different order..... although most importantly, under either scoring system, the overall team placings are unaffected

So there you go not as much of a difference as it may seem :)

Thanks to everyone for the reports and pictures and I hope to see most of you in Scotland next year!


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results eec 2018.png [ 25.21 KiB | Viewed 545 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:49 pm 
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Terrain can always end up being a bit of a contentious issue, as what's bad for one army is good for another - in this case it was more just a comment that it's rough for more fragile armies if there is limited LOS blocking. It is interesting though on the effect terrain composition can have on a local meta. It's not necessarily 'good' or 'bad' per-se, it just means that army prevalence and the builds of those armies will be different. Given it can be very different though, I do think it might be an idea looking forward for the hosts of an international event to post up a pic of a sample table or two so that players know what to expect. It also helps remove any 'home field' advantage if it diverges from other countries metas, and allows any super enthusiastic teams to replicate it for test games! Nothing wrong with a bit of diversity in terrain though.

On scoring, the scoring for draws for me really comes down to whether you consider the holding and denying objectives or the difference in VP's to be more important. There are certainly arguments both ways, although from a personal perspective given the game win conditions are based on objectives, skillful control of the board and those objectives, even when your army has been significantly degraded should give a player some reward. The UK scoring system in fairness still awards a 'winning' or 'losing' draw, it just gives the person who got the losing draw something to walk away from the game with. Obviously this only really works with a more graduated points system though.

I think there's an argument for looking at a different game format than the 'grand tournament scenario' though if the issue is that it's objectives don't suit how a given player base wants to play the game, as one might say the issue if someone isn't wanting to build and play an army that can potentially achieve a 5-0 victory is that really they're not actually wanting to play that scenario. Nothing wrong with that mind you, and personally i think we could do with a bit of scenario diversity anyway!


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 Post subject: Re: EEC 2018 in Germany
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:34 pm 
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I go up 3 places under the UK system, therefore I like it more. :spin

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