Hey everyone,

I'm going to be taking steps to set up a database for the results of tournaments in the North American scene. I know the largest group is the New England crew, but I've seen other pockets of activity that'd I'd love to get feedback from as well.

I'm aiming to format the dB in a way that will allow people to view individual tournament results, as well as a master sheet showing all documented games for tracking greater overall trends.

If anyone is hosting a tournament, or is simply willing to volunteer to grab the information for me, I'll be looking for:
Date
Player Names
Armies used
Version of the armies
Army list
Who won
# of Turns
Which objectives each player got/ VPs scored
A link to any batreps

With so much discussion non different global metas, I think this could help add to the conversation along with greater list development and just general documentation that can be fun to view.

With both Cold Wars and Adepticon this month, I think this could be a great time to kick the project off with an immediate injection of information. I'd appreciate any help that people can provide!

If anyone has suggestions for other information they'd like to see, lete know and I'll see what I can do about working it in as we go to get this up and running.

_________________
Grey Knights AC: viewtopic.php?f=130&t=33750

Tau AC: viewforum.php?

Net EA Chair

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

It's a good idea! I could be wrong but I'm sure Kyrt's battle tracker would do the work if we simply entered that data in an organized fashion!

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Only thing I haven't got (but have been meaning to add) is an optional link to a batrep.

Also bulk upload.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Please add the optional link to batrep....Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee

_________________
Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

Yessssd

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

Another option to add is country, this would allow search by country(number of games, win rates etc).. I gather there would be fair amount of work in the back ground to have it work though...Sorry I have very, very limit programing knowledge....Just a idea,,,

_________________
Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

Kyrt / others

The tournament name (or "Friendly" / "test" etc for others), and possibly even tournament score and comments fields may also help.

Great page Kyrt! That has a lot of the concepts I had built into it. Like PFE mentioned, I'm hoping to capture the NA meta.

Ginger, that's part of the design I have envisioned. Separate spreads for each tournament, then a master list for the viewing of trends of long periods of time. Each separate page would be titled by the tournament name, date, and year. I can definitely look into incorporating a comment field. Who do you see the field serving and for what purpose could it be utilized? Just so that it doesn't turn into a sudo sub forum for discussions.

_________________
Grey Knights AC: viewtopic.php?f=130&t=33750

Tau AC: viewforum.php?

Net EA Chair

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

I have just scrapped a lengthy spiel on fields, data design and processes.

I would really like to see a global database to track games and allow more definitive analyses. While there are differences in the meta and rules interpretation, that is no reason not to track the data, but rather it becomes a requirement that needs to be allowed for. In effect, the whole question boils down to what analyses do we need, and what other requirements exist.

Kyrt's battle result tracker goes a very, very long way towards what you have stated, but I suspect the structure of Kyrt's tracker is geared towards single battles with a separate pair of lists for each, while the lists for a tournament are constant per player over several games - can this be changed? I also have a feeling that the lists are linked to the Army Forge.

My suggestion is that the following analyses are needed

• Tracking tournaments and friendly games, including objectives points killed, type of win etc
• Tracking results against different army sizes (allows analysis of minigeddon etc)
• Tracking army results and people’s results by country, bearing in mind the people can travel to 'foreign' games
• Identifing the variant of list in use (NetEA, EUK, Fan list etc)
• Tracking Championship results by person against the year (UK at first, but others may want to run their own)
• Allowing people to enter their army list before the game (using the army designer), to allow the TO to see and check it, thus taking some of the data entry load from the TO, but otherwise keeping it hidden until the results are available.
• Is anything else needed, possibly analysis by formation?
• Other requirements include more logistical questions over who creates this (if someone other than Kyrt etc), development and maintenance, access etc.
• If this becomes a new database, whether and how to extract data from existing systems, eg E-UK data, which is in a different format, and how lists should be entered and stored.

Finally, the suggestion of a 'comments' field was purely (very) old-school design approach. Adding a 20-50 character field that could initially contain comments on the game, or that might be used for some as yet unknown data, (like the tournament organiser - if that becomes something we want to analyse).

Thanks for all the great feedback. I think a lot of these ideas give us a direction to work towards. I've spoken with Dave about possibly taking this beyond simple data entry and make this more interactive. To start off, I'll just be collecting the data and organizing it in one place. If we can eventually transfer this to a more sophisticated system, all the better.

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

_________________
Grey Knights AC: viewtopic.php?f=130&t=33750

Tau AC: viewforum.php?

Net EA Chair

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

HMGS Cold Wars

Date 3/18/17
Player Names......Shawn
Armies used........Knight gryphon
Version of the armies....Knights 2.2.2......Tau.....6.8
Army list.....see here...http://maashes.blogspot.com/2017/03/col ... day-2.html
Who won....Tau 2-0
# of Turns....3
Which objectives each player got/ VPs scored......TSNP & DTF

Date 3/18/17
Player Names......John
Armies used........Codex Marines
Version of the armies....Marines 2015 tourney pack.....Tau.....6.8
Army list.....see here...http://maashes.blogspot.com/2017/03/col ... day-2.html
Who won....Tau 2-0
# of Turns....3
Which objectives each player got/ VPs scored......BTS & Blitz

Date 3/18/17
Player Names......Kal
Armies used........Eldar
Version of the armies....Bien-Tan 4.2.....Tau.....6.8
Army list.....see here...http://maashes.blogspot.com/2017/03/col ... day-2.html
Who won....Tau 4-0
# of Turns....3
Which objectives each player got/ VPs scored......TSNP & DTF & BTS & DTF

_________________
mattie
http://maashes.blogspot.com/

Sorry for not coming back to this thread earlier.

I implemented a link to batrep.

In general yes Ginger my page is currently designed for single battle reports that you would acquire thought playtests for example. It does already allows you to specify a 'context' which could be a gaming group or more typically a tournament, which you can then use to view all the game results for that tournament.

However to support tournament entry it needs to be properly supported with a different, dedicated user story and UI flow. So for example entering lists for each player, then entering results only (and you might want to do that using excel for example). It also has no concept of 'points' like EUK does, because this is too specific to each local meta.

In order to implement that needs a much more comprehensive app, as there are quite a few issues to do with user identity (eg players enter their lists, TOs enter results which then show up as results for those players). There's quite a lot of complexity and it needs a proper webapp with thought given over to UX.

Also to answer your question about armyforge, it leverages armyforge in the sense that the app goes to lengths to try to minimise the amount of data entry - so you don't have to paste an armyforge list but if you do it populates the race, army, version and points fields and will format the list better when viewing the game later.

Like ginger i would really like to move towards a single database, even if there are separate apps on top of it. Fragmenting now would seem a missed opportunity, and i fully intend to build bulk load. Intention is to be able to import EUK data (not all of it, as mentioned the championship points are UK specific). What I would actually suggest as a way forward is to separate out the data from the interface - it would be quite easy to refactor as microservice APIs for storing core data, with a much nicer node UI on top with something like Auth0 for identity management. That would allow data exchange even if different groups have their own apps.

It might not show from my existing battle tracker which is a hatchet job, but in my day job i actually specialise in building complex data integration systems over the web. If we could collaborate on building a next generation version that'd be awesome. To be clear, to make this work we'd need to tackle some tricky issues (eg globally unique player identity) but it is tractable.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list