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ERC Representation
Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:44 am 
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With the up turn in interest in minor and major modifications to both the main rules and army lists, renewed interest in varient and new lists we are again seeing proposals for changes being made.

If a new version of the rule book is made official and revisions are made to the army lists and unit stats then I believe that the group most affected should have a voice on the EPC to ensure that the changes are balanced from a UK tournament perspective.

The reason that I am calling for this as has been noted in other threads, the UK has the largest and most active tournament scene and any rule changes will have the largest impact on it.

With having the largest scene we are able to test in small groups and then take these ideas to tournaments for further testing and discussion, we are not always playing the same people with the same ideas on how an army should be played or with the same interpretation of the rules. There is also a feeling from some of the tournament scene that they are not listenned too when they post on this or the SG forum as they are not prolific posters, but on the tournament scene they are big players who are respected by all.

With the above in mind I would like to propose that Mephiston from this forum is added to the ERC to represent the views of the UK tournament players.

He is the perfect player to represent us as he regularly attends tournaments and could not be considered a power player looking to exploit army lists and rules but he can listen to us that are and take a considered view.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:51 am 
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He is, and can call always be relied upon to have a new take or question on existing rules :)
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Markconz
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:58 pm 
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You are assuming there is an ERC actually capable of achieving something concrete? After years so far we have a single skimmer rule update...

Like Hena says, some major shakeup is needed but given that similar and numerous calls have been made before without result, and that the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour... well lets just say that I'm not waiting around anymore for something that may never happen.



If you guys want updated rules you can use the handbook in my sig (or not...). I've been using a 'one person one vote' system ('big player' or not) to develop it so far, with the understanding that Neal's in overall long term charge as someone who is clearly the most active and committed ERC member.

By one person one vote, I mean people actually have to bother joining up and voting or commenting. For example I have over 10 people in my group, but they are represented by my single vote because they are content to do that - they have faith that other epic players won't screw things up too badly...  

If people want input on the rules tell them to get involved sooner rather than later as version 1.0 will be out November (though of course development will continue after that on a version 2.0, even if it's not me doing it by then). Anyone is free to start dicussions/polls etc.  Time for feedback is now.  Note that the issues up for change are almost all just things that have been around for years, and anyone who has been keeping up with developments should be aware of them.  Also I wouldn't be surprised if any official changes mysteriously end up looking very similar...

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yme-loc
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:20 pm 
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I'd certainly support mephiston/Dave as a member of the ERC assuming such a body still exists.

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Steve54
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:24 am 
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So would I

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fbruntz
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:53 am 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Aug. 31 2007,09:44)
QUOTE
If a new version of the rule book is made official and revisions are made to the army lists and unit stats then I believe that the group most affected should have a voice on the EPC to ensure that the changes are balanced from a UK tournament perspective.

And what about the rest of the world?  :D

As the French community is very active (check the epic_fr forum), I think that French players should have a voice on the EPC to ensure that the changes are balanced from a French perspective.  :laugh:  

This is not serious, isn't it?

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Markconz
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:17 am 
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Well any French who want to contribute to handbook development are most welcome to - same as the Brits, Americans, Germans, Finns, Aussies, and many others who have contributed so far...

However, I understand many of the French have been developing their own rather extensive EA revisions separately for some time now (and I don't blame them for doing so given all the ERC problems to date).

I've just received some very helpful work from Biggles (mentioned above) by the way.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:34 am 
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I wonder if there is a way to co-ordinate these two strands of development outside the ERC to produce a single, more widely approved document?...

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Moscovian
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:24 pm 
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Probably. The trick is not ruining the momentum Mark has on his document while still trying to involve everybody.  I can see that happening if some 3rd non-geographic body (committee?) were to take both works and compare them at completion.  My guess is they will be quite similar, but still there will be the small things that need ironing out.
If both groups are willing to allow this body to make those potential changes that then you've got an easy solution.  Of course, you still need a body... :)

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Mephiston
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:54 pm 
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As the UK tournament scence begins to wind down I'll be back to playing games using the experimental rules.

I hope that all players would be using Marks fine work as the basis for testing, regardless of country.

However without one unified source for the rules each group/country will probably end up using different rules causing real problems with ongoing development.
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Markconz
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:10 pm 
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Yeah as Mosc suggests, I am not letting momentum slow. I will have version 1.0 finished in November (and would be a lot earlier if it wasn't for Tau and Tyranids), and I do not intend to derail that deadline.  I doubt any effective body could be organised in time to be useful in that process beyond what is already happening.

As I decided when I started the handbook, time spent organising and debating and checking in a committee can be enormous, and I could have the handbook done in the time it would take to organise a committee with procedures, due process etc. Thus I decided start typing and see what I could achieve, with Neal in overall charge as most active ERC member.

However, I certainly hope that some sort of effective body could be formed if only so the version 2.0 revision workload is spread over more people. Ideally the ERC problem would be sorted out as part of that of course...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:06 pm 
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There's one thing that needs to be remembered; The 'tournament scene' is the single least important section of the Epic-playing world.

The most important 'scene' are the 'friendly gamers'.

Cheers. :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:14 pm 
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Yes. The tournament scene in Germany is virtually non-existant. At least i never heard of a German tournament apart of the MIDI-Battle and this is more a friendly gamer tourney (with backstory and scenarios).




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Mephiston
 Post subject: ERC Representation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:21 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 03 2007,14:06)
QUOTE
There's one thing that needs to be remembered; The 'tournament scene' is the single least important section of the Epic-playing world.

The most important 'scene' are the 'friendly gamers'.

Cheers. :)

To my mind all players of Epic are equally important.

If we all weren't trying to update and improve the game for all user I'm sure we would all have fixed our perceived issues with the game and fixed them to our own groups liking.

The real challenge is to produce a set of rules that the whole community can accept, if not love  :cool:
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