I tested the new Dark Eldar against my 2nd most feared nemesis - AMTL. They performed fairly well considering I forgot to use the portable webway, and left the Talos in the carry case. I have posted the results in the Epic Armageddon battle reports section.

I proved to myself a few things.
(1) Reavers jetbikes, although they are vulnerable like most bikers, have incredible speed, and can help a lot in an engagement.
(2) Vessels of Pain might need reinforced armour, as a Macro Weapon stopped it from getting a save after the vulcan megabolter stripped it of its shields, and the critical then blew it up.
(3) Dark Eldar need to back up their engage actions with a decent amount of shooting to strip the enemy of their shields, cause blast markers and even break them.
(4) The Titan mounted AA helped limit the enemy aircraft movement, and keep it away from some formations. I love the addition of it.
(5) Improvement for the Barge of Pleasure and things that might make me take them in lists instead of raiders would be. (A) Having AA weapons as an upgrade for Barges of Pleasure, even if it cost 25 points each barge, they are limited to 30cm range with only 1 per formation allowed to be upgraded. (B) the re-introduction of the Desolator on the BOP. (c) Perhaps an optional upgrade of 0-1 Mobile Wraithgate that can be mounted on a BOP at 50 points. That could make me look at using Kalabite warriors again, using BOP as their transport to a make them a little more durable.

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6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

Hey Deb,
Thanks for the post and the suggestions!
Cheers
Jim

why do have reavers a 4+ save when eldar jetbikes only have a 5+?


overall the list pops my eyes a bit. sorry, but does it have any weak points whatsoever?
i might be wrong but it reads awfully, awfully strong..

Eldar have TK D3 weapons with longer ranges, Dark Eldar only have MW (TK1) weapons that have shorter ranges. Eldar jetbikes are allowed to swap out for Vyper support jetbikes for free. Eldar get a variety of Titan options, and their shields are a straight up 3+ save that can even be used against TK weapons and in close combat. Dark Eldar get a shield that although it makes it -1 to hit you, IC weapons ignore this, and now with the new test list, they do not regenerate.

Most Dark Eldar vehicles are light vehicles, so get pounded by AP and AT weapons. With the new test list, units on board can not shoot from them. Dark Eldar can not do the Eldar triple activation thing. Only with the new test list have Dark Eldar been able to get a mobile webway portal. It only last one round though, so use it wisely. Talos can not travel in Slavebringers anymore. Dark Eldar infantry get only 15cm for their AP 5+ Splinter Cannons where Eldar get range 30cm for their equivalent ap5+ Shuriken cannons. Dark Eldar have been limited in the NetEA list to only have a maximum of 8 infantry in a formation, and even with the new test list, you can still only get a maximum of 8 infantry based on transport restrictions, and rules limiting the number of upgrades a formation can get. In most cases Dark Eldar usually field 6 infantry and 3 transports.

Dark Eldars main tank, the ravager is a light vehicle, and has weapons that can only reach range 30cm, compared to most other armies ranges of either 45cm or 75cm for their main tanks. Their tanks can only be used in formations of 4 or 5, so they are easily broken. In fact most of the army has formations that are easily broken that are not fearless. Thus the broken formations get picked on, and die off quickly. Your activation count drops very quickly, and the enemy soon can overwhelm your force.

I think that is enough of a weakness to make them balanced.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

Because Eldar jet bikes are ff4+ rather than the DE 5+, the speed and riding style of DE is supposed to make them more survivable. I really wouldn't worry about jet bikes, Deb has hit on a way to use them but I've never seen them used by the similar EUK list ever, Scourages, Mandrakes and Hellions have more special rules giving them more obvious utility.

Weaknesses of DE-

Ground based AA is extremely limited unless you want to pay for their big thing WE for a very limited amount.
Small units, few AVs, and limited armour makes them extremely fragile giving them momentum and ground holding troubles as well as a poor BTS.
Only one unit with the Commander ability means that you've no brute force huge assault option should cleverly set up supporting engages not be enough.
No artillery
Only one Garrison option which you'd never want to garrison as it is a cc teleport formation!

Rugll is correct in indicating speed is their main driver for warranting a 4+ save.

Deb, transport is not an upgrade. It is in the transport section. So you can still get 2x troops and 2x wyches and transports.
Cheers
Jim

They do get artillery, but it is an upgrade to a talos formation. and at 150 points each for up to 2, the 2DC Perditors can only put their indirect 30cm disrupt 2 BP weapons out to 60cm maximum. Benefits are that they are walkers and are fearless with RA, but a move of only 15cm. Eldar Void spinners have a longer range, 3DC, are AV skimmers, move 30cm have reinforced armour, and can be in dedicated artillery formations of 3 units. That is 6BP for the formation, and it is also disrupt.

I tried them once when in a tournament where they were part of the Haemonculi formation, and they ran to cover in the middle of the table. They got shot to bits - eventually against Imperial Guard. The talos put enemy off assaulting them as the whole formation was fearless., so they got sniped at until broken, and stayed broken for 2 turns. Against the AMTL, they were obliterated.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

I have never played the DE, but it seems like the being able to shoot out of the transports is very fluffy and fits the style of the army. Is there a specific reason it was removed or was it just thought to be overpowered? It seems as though they have enough disadvantages to justify it but this is just from reading the above not from any experience.

It comes down to the point of when do you let things happen and when do you stop.

Regarding shooting from transports, it was originally allowed in the Speed Freaks list, but this meant that instead of being able to shoot dismounted infantry you always had to fire on the transport vehicles, which generally have a save. And was too powerful.

So it adds a slight restriction to how the units are played - Do you wish to shoot or remain mounted for next term.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Does this mean I can take an upgrade twice? I thought you could only take the wyches upgrade once. Wyches only get wyches and succubus as upgrades. taking the wyches upgrade, I still only get 8 infantry. Same with the coterie who start with 4 units, and can ad 2 x 2 units as upgrades chosen from scourges, wyches, haemonculi and warriors. Haemonculi get max 8 with the grotesques as their only upgrade (apart fro the HQ ancient who changes a unit not adds to it). Reavers, scourges and Hellions do not get any extra units, just the succubus. Only the syndicate can get 2 lots of 2 infantry added chosen from warriors, wyches, scourges and haemonculi., so they can have a maximum of 10 infantry, if you decide not to take the ravager upgrade.

So Dark Eldar are limited in how many infantry units they can take - still.

Hold it, wyches can also take beasts - now that I look at it again. The beasts will have to run along side the raiders and venoms or barges as they are prohibited from riding in any of them. That will slow the transports down, which will make the wyches more vulnerable.

_________________
6mm wargaming is just like 25mm wargaming with more units fitting on the same size table. Thus bigger games to get lost in and avoid the hassles of everyday living, and offerings for the dice gods.

Hey Deb,
No only upgrades once. Correct on everything else.
Cheers
Jim

I think it's removal made the list a bit more boring to play.

The raiders are in the end only light vehicles so anyone with a shooting attack can take them out. Staying on bord is usually rather dangerous.
But on the other hand a warrior formation in barges able to FF out of them was a very strong assault/support formation (but you can still do that by placing the barges up front).

I can't remember when there was a discussion about the shooting out of transports are overpowerd (for this list). Was that just an unnecessary adjustment to bring the list in line with the epicUK list?

No this was to bring the list in line with the NetEA list.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

The intent was to closely align the netea list with the uk list, because it was stable and competitive, so as minimize dramas with the approval process - but still maintain the majority of the netea units to avoid invalidating peoples existing collections and make some minor adjustments to boost some of the units.
Cheers
Jim

Well the shooting and FF (while being on a transport) was part of the original raiders list. It was removed a while back from the netEA tournament pack (they can now only shoot). The discussion before that is what I never really saw happening.

I didn't realize this now proposed playtest list had gone further and removed shooting as well. That seems really unnecessary. Where have there been big complaints about DE being overpowered because they can shoot from their transports?