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Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4

 Post subject: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:59 pm 
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So 0.2 had 128, while version 0.1 had 152 downloads. Version 0.4 is attached (I skipped 0.3).

Attachment:
ROGUE TRADER EXPEDITION - 0.4.pdf [292.72 KiB]
Downloaded 1084 times


Cut some extraneous units. The list should be a lot tighter. Still massive, mind you, but tighter. Suggestions for further cutting are welcome.

I may ignore them, but I'll be glad to have them. ;)

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Last edited by Simulated Knave on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:57 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:43 am 
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woah that's a blast from the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:06 am 
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The merchant cargo light freighter is still listed in units but not in the army list? is it still an option?

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:46 pm 
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It's in Aerospace Support (in the list) and is the last of the Mercenary Vehicles and Spacecraft (in the stats summary).

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Oh yea, oops sorry, managed to completely ignore the second column ::) .

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:08 pm 
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I should probably move the Aerospace Support elements into their own section - I reorganized things a bit at the last minute and some chaos has ensued. :P

Anyway - twenty downloads, someone must have something to take me to task about/gush about. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:14 am 
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making a list seems to be quite complicated.

I can go space marine heavy, in which case 33% or more points must be space marines AND a further 17% of points must be trustworthy

I can go bondsmen and mercenry heavy in which case 50% of points must be trustworty

in both cases I cannont have more then 30% of the aerospace support, which also affects the trustyworthiness score.


To be honest, unless you've got something clear in your head, i wouldn't bother with the space marines. I have trouble picturing them working alongside xenos, or being present in such large amounts (diplomatic bodygaurd, yes) and the best reason i can think for having them in the list is to make buying units easier in real life. But there's quite a few alien races available in 6mm now.

the kroot can get an upgrade called walker, but no upgrade is then listed.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:23 am 
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Quote:
making a list seems to be quite complicated.


True. I'm slightly tempted to cut back Trustworthy to a flat 33% (as opposed to its current "50% of stuff that isn't FROM SPACE") and then Marines back to 25%, which'd simplify things moderately well.

Quote:
I can go space marine heavy, in which case 33% or more points must be space marines AND a further 17% of points must be trustworthy


Well, yes, but I think it'd be easier if you thought of it as:
33% of my army must be Space Marines.
50% of the non-aerospace/spacecraft portion of my army must be trustworthy.

Quote:
in both cases I cannont have more then 30% of the aerospace support, which also affects the trustyworthiness score.


Nope. Aerospace support is ignored completely. It's 50% of your non-aerospace, non-spacecraft units (so if you have 500 points of Aerospace, you need 1250 of Trustworthy).

Unless you mean that that makes things messy by fiddling with the numbers like that. In which case...yeah. :P

Quote:
To be honest, unless you've got something clear in your head, i wouldn't bother with the space marines. I have trouble picturing them working alongside xenos, or being present in such large amounts (diplomatic bodygaurd, yes) and the best reason i can think for having them in the list is to make buying units easier in real life. But there's quite a few alien races available in 6mm now.


They're quite well-established as tagging along in the background:
First Book of the Astronomican: Tyrel Cathek. Rogue Trader. One company of the Stone Hearts chapter and two companies of Imperial Army (IIRC). That's a minimum of 1000 points - more if you buy a few upgrades or invest in some vehicular support (like the Thunderhawks to land that Battle Company).

In C:SM 3e, a Rogue Trader had a Librarian, a Captain, a Chaplain, 30 Tacticals, and 20 Assault Marines under his command (as well as several other elements not represented in Epic). Along with three Thunderhawks. That's a minimum of 1375 points.

You don't really need that many Marines to get to one-third of the army. :)

As to cooperating with xenos: I think it'd depend on the context, on the xenos, and on the Marines. I don't think any of them would ever be thrilled about it, but I think they could probably deal with it in certain circumstances - the rules are different on the fringe of the Imperium, and Marines are smart enough to recognize that. Sometimes.

Quote:
the kroot can get an upgrade called walker, but no upgrade is then listed.


Oops.

I also forgot the Terminators option. Double oops.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:35 am 
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Simulated Knave wrote:

Quote:
in both cases I cannont have more then 30% of the aerospace support, which also affects the trustyworthiness score.


Nope. Aerospace support is ignored completely. It's 50% of your non-aerospace, non-spacecraft units (so if you have 500 points of Aerospace, you need 1250 of Trustworthy).

Unless you mean that that makes things messy by fiddling with the numbers like that. In which case...yeah. :P



whut? you mean it's even more complicated then I thought? oh cripes.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:02 pm 
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...It's really not that complicated.

How much aerospace is there? How many spacecraft? What's 50% of the rest of the army? Done.

Note that I may simplify it anyway, but if you can remember all the rules for the game you can certainly handle this process! ;)

The restrictions on an army list:
At least 33% Space Marine (if any are taken)
No more than 33% Aerospace Support
50% of the portion of the army that is not Aerospace Support and not spacecraft (so not Aerospace Support or the Space Marine Strike Cruiser) must be Space Marines, Retinue, and/or one type of Mercenary.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:55 am 
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0.4 -
Attachment:
ROGUE TRADER EXPEDITION - 0.4.pdf [292.72 KiB]
Downloaded 211 times


OK. Simplified things, cut some of the more extraneous units. List is still probably bigger than it needs to be, but it's at the point where I like most of what's left.

Suggestions on further things to cut would be welcome, as would suggestions for a replacement mercenary unit for the Hrud Company (since the Hrud tend to keep to themselves). :)

Doc version is also attached, if people want to scribble comments all over it. :P


Attachments:
ROGUE TRADER EXPEDITION - 0.4.docx [42.2 KiB]
Downloaded 266 times

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:26 am 
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hmmm - looks good, but the number of characters is quite unwieldy. I quite like the 'trustworthy' list building mechanic and the double space ship concept.
you could probably just cut the hrud with no replacement, there's plenty of similar choices available - indeed, a whole lot of the mercenaries look to have very similar stat lines (and minimal range).

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:05 am 
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Quote:
hmmm - looks good, but the number of characters is quite unwieldy. I quite like the 'trustworthy' list building mechanic and the double space ship concept.


It's an attempt to capture the eclectic-assemblage-of-random-people feeling of a Rogue Trader's retinue.

That said, I could probably just give the Retinue formations the Mercenary Lord upgrade and eliminate a few of the advisors.

Quote:
you could probably just cut the hrud with no replacement, there's plenty of similar choices available - indeed, a whole lot of the mercenaries look to have very similar stat lines (and minimal range).


Well, they are infantry. Can't give them too much range. The statlines are similar, but the abilities tend to vary somewhat. Or at least they're supposed to.

The Hrud and Nekulli are, at the moment, my least favorite of the mercenaries and the most problematic. The Nekulli don't add much and the Hrud don't actually make that much sense as mercenaries (they're too standoffish and weird). I'm tempted to remove both of them.

Right now, the major weaknesses of the list (as I see them) are a shortage of non-Thunderhawk War Engines, a lack of artillery (and range), a lack of close combat specialists and a shortage of ways to deal with War Engines. Is it worth trying to address any of those weaknesses, or do they all feel characterful? Or am I misreading the list?

I'm tempted to add a company of close combat specialists, whether by replacing the Nekulli with the Sslyth or by simply making the Nekulli more close-combat specialized. Another thought would be replacing the Hrud with a Squat battery of some kind. Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:16 pm 
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aren't the spaceships supposed to be the artillery?

Is there some sort of anti-WE WE you could add (preferably to the kinsmen, so that particular alien isn't a default choice)?
Minds gone blank for now, can't think of any off the top of my head.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Trader Expedition - 0.4
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:07 pm 
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The spaceships are the artillery (and, to some extent, the anti-WE). But they're somewhat less reliable and immediately useful than on-board artillery.

I'd been hoping to avoid non-flying WE simply because I like to see a Rogue Trader force as (relatively) lightly-equipped. Shadowswords don't seem right, you know? Could reintroduce the Bondsmen Aerospace Fighters with some kind of TK weapon. Or make the Hrud more MWy (and more expensive).

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