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Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard

 Post subject: Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:56 am 
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Another (very short!) game here. :)
http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/20 ... nised.html

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 Post subject: Re: Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:12 am 
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Also some thoughts on this guard list that I've quickly read over. Design thread is here (though I haven't read all of this):
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=30042

Ok so first I think it's good that a self-described inexperienced list builder is nonetheless getting involved and contributing new material, so this is not supposed to be criticism in a bad way. Rather this is some comments if balancing against approved NetEA lists is aimed for at some point.


In summary this an army of 2DC, 4+RA war engines, and every arm is 4+ RA - even the artillery and AA.
It's also presently in small formations which helps with activation advantage. Note that Guard armies in original design balancing were given large unwieldy company's as core formations, but that vulnerability has been removed with no compensation in terms of points or other disadvantages I can see.

Being all war engines, the vehicles have also lost vulnerability to close combat because they are usually able to use firefight of 4+ or 5+ rather than being reduced to 6+ CC. And most close combat attacks (barring terminators) will also be ignored by the 4+RA on everything (even artillery).

The result is that many formations appear significantly under-costed/overpowered. E.g. looking at just a few formations (ignoring secondary weapons like HB in descriptions here):

Praetor Launcher - 150cm 4BP, Disrupt, Indirect; 2x2DC, 4+RA for 300.
Normal Guard artillery was designed as powerful, but expensive (250) and vulnerable, one hit breaks them 66% of the time.
It's takes about 8 hits to break these Praetor Artillery (and same for the AA).
If you want that resilience over a normal Manticore battery, which is also slow firing (and also remember 6BP is little improvement over 4BP in game effect) it had better cost a very significant amount more. Suggest starting at 450 points. If contrasting units theoretically, it should be a difficult choice between them, e.g. do I want Manticores vulnerable but firepower, vs Praetors extremely tough but less firepower. At 300 points this is no contest.

Similar issue with Sky-killer - 60cm 4xAA4+; 2x2DC 4+RA for 200? A hydra battery has same damage output (2 hits) at less range and 1 hit usually breaks them rather than it taking 8. Suggest starting somewhere 300-350 points.

Mech Infantry. Crassus ( DC2 4+RA) is no-brainer choice over the chimeras due to resilience to all of direct/indirect fire, blast, close assault and ease to hide with small footprint - but in the list at present it costs *more* to downgrade to chimeras. Suggest 250-275 points base, and -25/50 points to downgrade to chimeras.

Macharius Tanks (e.g. 3 of them at 325. 4x AP4/AT4, 2x AP4/AT2, 6DC 4+RA).
Excellent tank because all its main firepower is reaching 75cm and flexible AT/AP rather than specialist. 2/3 cost of SHT company plus bonus for tank quality and the activation advantage seems right. Suggest starting at 375 with drop of FF to 5+ (3HB is undergunned for FF4+ on a heavy tank so that makes sense and would help with list balance).

etc.

In short I think there needs to be significant point increases and/or nerfs to start making this balanced against approved lists. And internal balance could also do with some more obvious strengths/weaknesses. Right now it is just good at almost everything.

It's worth reminding of the general rule in making new armies, that it is better to err on the side of having them too weak rather than too strong. And balance them against approved lists not other experimental ones.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:38 am 
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Put my thoughts (fairly parallel) in the Development Thread


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 Post subject: Re: Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:16 am 
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Cheers Andrew!

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 Post subject: Re: Epic 4K: Biel Tan vs Heavy Mechanised Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:23 am 
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Nice report as always guys, and thanks very much for the valuable, constructive feedback! I'll digest it all for a little while, and post some thoughts up in the heavy mech development thread.
Cheers.

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