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Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes

 Post subject: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:02 am 
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We ran a game with Mics Biel-Tan army vs an epicuk Space marine army to test it out.
I ran Space Marines vs last years swedish Space Marine champion who played Biel-Tan.

Biel-Tan
Avatar [0pts]
Aspect Warrior Warhost c/w 8 Shining Spear, +Exarch, +Autarch [400pts]
Aspect Warrior Warhost c/w 8 Shining Spear, +Exarch, +Exarch [350pts]
Guardian Warhost c/w 5 Guardians, 1 Farseer, 2 Hvy Wpn Platform [150pts]
Guardian Warhost c/w 5 Guardians, 1 Farseer, 2 Hvy Wpn Platform [150pts]
Ranger Troupe c/w 4 Rangers, +1 Ranger [125pts]
Ranger Troupe c/w 4 Rangers [100pts]
Swords of Vaul c/w 3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm [250pts]
Swords of Vaul c/w 3 Falcon, 2 Firestorm [250pts]
Night Spinner Troupe c/w 3 Night Spinners [175pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Scorpion [250pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Scorpion [250pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Void Spinner [275pts]
Engine of Vaul c/w 1 Void Spinner [275pts]

Astartes
DEVASTATOR [250]
4 Devastators

TACTICAL [475]
6 Tacticals, Supreme Commander, Hunter, Razorback

SCOUT [175]
4 Scouts, Razorback

SCOUT [175]
4 Scouts, Razorback

LAND SPEEDER [200]
5 Landspeeder

TERMINATOR [400]
4 Terminators, Chaplain

STRIKE CRUISER [200]

THUNDERHAWK [200]

THUNDERHAWK [200]

WARHOUND [275]
1 Warhound Class Titan

WARHOUND [275]
1 Warhound Class Titan

THUNDERBOLT SQUADRON [175]
2 Thunderbolt Fighters
****
Game was played across the table. Biel-Tan placed his blitz on the far edge and his take and hold objecives spread out, somewhat to the back in the open. SM placed his blitz in the center and both his take and hold close to the BT blitz. Devestators start in spaceship. Terminators start in Thunderhawks. BT deploy over the whole table with Void Spinners hidden behind cover. SM deploy wide with the tac squad and with both Warhounds on the opposite flank from the blitz.

Turn 1
Sm win strat roll.
Space ship Orbital bombards. Hitting 2 scorpions and BTS Shining spears. Breaks shining spears who withdraw. Wounding one scorpion.
Devestators deploy. Deathwind breaks one scorpion. Puts blastmarker on the other and night spinners.
Scouts fire OW at devastators.
Sm Retains, sustain fires at falcons killing one firestorm.

BT fires Void Spinner at Devastators. Fails to activate, uses reroll.
BT retains, engages Devastators. Wipe out Devastators for two losses

SM Double move warhound, fire at shining spears and breaking them.

BT tries to marshall scorpion. Fails to activate. Breaks.

SM double moves warhound. Shoots at falcons breaking them.

SM Retains, engages with thunderhawk terminators. Breaks Void spinner (not activated).

Falcons marshall

Thunderhawk groundstrikes BTS killing it.

BT can't remember what they did (Maybe double moves guardians and put BM on scouts)

Move Land speeders to cordon off the units on the non blitz flank.

At this point the BT player throws in the towel as he sees no possibility of winning the game anymore. In the aftermath we agree that the matchup was pretty bad for BT but at the same time these kinds of lists aren't that unusual at tournaments in our meta. I will see if I can scrounge up a couple of pictures later.


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:20 am 
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Thanks for the report.. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:22 am 
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Thanks for the report. I would say that's what happens with an unlucky/lucky template more so than the list itself.
Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:18 am 
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Which particular bit are you seeing as lucky? Hitting anything? Hitting three formations? Hitting the BTS? Breaking the BTS?

Honestly curious, it did sound like a sweet shot but at the same time you'd hope a bombardment was going to actually do *some* damage...


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:23 am 
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If you eyeball the objectives, that can give a rough idea of where the enemy is going to deploy, so spacecraft bombardment is a bit more accurate than pot luck, generally.

Tiny Tim and I also played a Marines v Mic's BT arty/spears themed army a few days ago, Tim will post a report with pics shortly.

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:06 am 
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I use spacecraft in nearly every list and always smash a formation or two with the template. So i know its more than luck as there is skill in the placement. I would say it is lucky that the spaceship templates did so much damage considering you need 4s and 5s to hit. It is also lucky to hit so many formations, and quite a dumb move to put so many of the BTs key formations in such close proximity to one another.

I am happy that people are continuing to play test the list, but i dont feel that it proves anything more than mic is a good player.

I think the changes discussed in the previous thread have been useful to highlight the issues.

Cheers
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:14 am 
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Quote:
I would say it is lucky that the spaceship templates did so much damage considering you need 4s and 5s to hit


If the templates fully touched all 8 shining spears and they were not in cover, that's 4 hits and a broken formation on average.

Having 2 scorpions also under the template sounds like a lucky plot, but with that plot accepted, doing a single point of damage to one Scorpion isn't vastly long odds.

Quote:
quite a dumb move to put so many of the BTs key formations in such close proximity to one another.


How does Mic deploy this army, into small castles, or spread wide?

Might be best to avoid pejoratives like "dumb" for the purposes of irenic, fruitful discourse.

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Last edited by Evil and Chaos on Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:17 am 
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Is the overriding opinion that being able to hit all 8 shining spears in no cover and 2 scorpions is normal?


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:20 am 
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How much terrain do you UK guys normally have in the deployment zone?

Barrage seems to be fair stronger in your games over there then in Australian games


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:22 am 
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danielcollins wrote:
Is the overriding opinion that being able to hit all 8 shining spears in no cover and 2 scorpions is normal?

As I posted above, that sounds like a slightly luckier plot than average.

In my game vs Tim I chose Corner deployment in order to give him less space (5 foot v 6 foot) to deploy in, and, well, I got a pretty good plot myself too. Tim'll have the report up soon I'm sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:23 am 
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Mard wrote:
How much terrain do you UK guys normally have in the deployment zone?

Barrage seems to be fair stronger in your games over there then in Australian games


About 3 pieces normally I'd say, mixed between ruins, woods, and hills.

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:33 am 
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Sounds like this game came out of Sweden, not the UK - it does sound like they play fairly similarly though from what I've read...


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:51 am 
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Would love to see some photos to try to put it into context


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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:17 am 
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Sounds slightly lucky to get so much of the BTS under and also 2 EoVs but only slightly. Remember that the pie plates can cover a window of 36cm so the chance of avoiding depends very heavily on how much you have to deploy. Against a 100% ground pounding biel tan army with no less than four infantry formations, including 2 bike formations that take up quite a bit of space, you are going to hit something. Bikes also cannot use buildings as cover (and risk dangerous terrain tests for being in it), whereas guardians desperately need to be in cover. If you want everything in cover then it has to be bunched up together intermingled. If you want to spread out then you have to take your chances in the open, simple as that. I would have put them behind a hill if i could, to try to stop them being macro'd by the warhounds, but it would be unavoidable that something is exposed, and fairly predictable that something was behind that hill.

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 Post subject: Re: Biel-Tan sv Adeptus Astartes
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:28 am 
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Quote:
Remember that the pie plates can cover a window of 36cm so the chance of avoiding depends very heavily on how much you have to deploy.

Force the Eldar player to play corners to reduce their table "edge" from 6 foot to 5 foot, and account for the 90 degree corner that also reduces the deployment acreage available, and that's around 25% of their deployment zone - which the Eldar can't deploy outside of because of their "no garrison" special rule.

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