I agree partially with some of what you've posted here Ginger, but have a disagreement on the following:

I've been following a lot of the discussion on the Biel Tan re balancing thread, and the main suggestions about the probable issue of BT is the 'triple alpha strike with high speed and powerful weapons', rather than one or two formations being OP. (Except probably the Void Spinner)

Although Mick may have tweaked his list, the core strategy and effectiveness stays roughly the same.

Many of the top players in Cancon play eldar, so they know all the tricks when facing him.

The conventional wisdom in the local tourney scene is that we are seeing BT Eldar consistently take the top spots in all the tournies again and again - and it's this consistency that indicated the problem is more than just luck and/or dream match ups.

Thanks for that Mic - I'd make one tiny point which is simply that the record can easily read as that of a very good player as much as an overpowered list. By way of comparison Richard L the current UK champion has something like 15 wins and a single draw, playing 4 different armies, in his last 4 tournaments. The top players (of which you are clearly one) get those sort of results

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I've been following this thread with interest to see where it's going and this caught my eye. Have you guys tried anything to mitigate the triple retain? Reading back over the rules it seems like it's too much of a sure thing. Has anyone tried giving the free first retain and making the penalty for the third a -2? Or have you tried limiting the formations you can use it on to a certain proximity to the farseer?

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-Vaaish

That was suggested by Tim in the other thread yeah, was received well.

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Also am curious why people think the triple retain alpha strike is a sure thing, as it's been characterised a couple of times now. The chance of winning strategy, then rolling a 2+, 3+, 3+ is actually not all that high

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Hey Guys

PFE asked me to post up this summary for Cancon 2017, and for a while I wasn't going to do it as I am not trying to blow my own trumpet. Given the direction of discussions around the eldar of late I kind of felt I had to in the end. I decided to post summaries for the last three years to highlight that it wasn't one particular build but the BT list itself I felt needed review from my prespective.

I thank those for their response so far. I guess I was hoping for acknowledgment that this is an example of what many Australians are saying about BT, regardless whether you agree or not.
The fact that plenty of other reasons, fluffy lists, lucky dice, player skill etc have been commented on is a bit disheartening instead of the acknowledgment I feel our argument is warranted.

Vaaish and Kyrt I think the ideas to test the amended double retain are good. I know there are some questions around this but keep in mind the double retain is even better later in the game when aspects and Avatars are committing to various assaults. 3 solid assaults from the eldar at the top of turn 3 is huge.

Cheers

Mic

Or only allow a formation with a farseer/farsight to make the 3rd retain action, stops the alpha strike but still allows rolling assaults and does not affect any builds.

Winning strategy against IG is gonna happen pretty consistently. There's a slight "hidden" edge to the greater SR on turn one as draws are re-rolled instead of swapping (which will tend to help the lower SR on subsequent turns), too.

For the cumulative chance of getting all three activations straight out if the gate:

83% chance for first activation.
55% chance for 2nd activation.
37% chance for 3rd activation.

Having a re-roll available pushes those odds to circa 49% to get all three activations off, if a fail happens on the 2nd or 3rd activation, if my maths is right.

While not a sure thing, 37% / 49% (if you see a need to burn the re-roll) is going to affect a decent proportion of games.

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To follow on, the proposed mod to the retain rule would drop the chance of a successful three activation streak down to 27.5% (if using 2+ initiative formations).

So it'll still work about a quarter of the time, a bit more if using a re-roll.

If using 1+ init formations (rolling engagement style) the odds will be significantly better, so still quite viable as a trick in the Eldar bag for turn 2 onwards.

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That seems a good more limited reduction to triple retain, if one is decided to be needed.

I'd also to see the Avatar summoning to be slightly modified to have to be near an unbroken farseer, to slightly limit the Avatars effect while not altering things too much like other suggestions. It seems a bit implausible for a farseer to carry out a complex summoning ritual while legging it away in panic too.