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AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar

 Post subject: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:33 pm 
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AMTL
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 032.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 032.JPG [ 1.01 MiB | Viewed 962 times ]

Reaver 1 – Legate, CML, CLP, Quake Cannon & CCW.
Reaver 2 – Laser Burner, 2x Plasma Cannon
Reaver 3 – Laser Burner, 2x Plasma Cannon
Reaver 4 – Laser Burner, 2x Plasma Cannon
Sentinels 1
Sentinels 2
Thunderbolts

Dark Eldar
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 033.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 033.JPG [ 1.02 MiB | Viewed 962 times ]

Webway Portal
(Archon) Kabal Coterie – 4 Incubi, Archon Character + 2 Incubi & 3 Raiders
(Warrior 1) – Kabal Synidcate + Dracon (Portable Webway) & 3 Raiders
(Warrior 2) – Kabal Synidcate 2 Venoms & 2 Raiders
(Ravager 1) – Ravagers (5)
(Ravager 2) – Ravagers (5)
Scourges
Vessel of Pain 1
Vessel of Pain 2
Slavebringer
Razorwings 1
Razorwings 2
Razorwings 3


Set Up


DE placed their Blitz on the centre of their deployment zone followed by the AMTL placing theirs on the far right corner. DE Take and Hold objectives went to the left of the AMTL flank far away from the Blitz whilst the AMTL TnH objectives were more centrally placed with a lean towards their right flank just outside 30cm of each other. The objective closest to the AMTL Blitz was exchanged to the Webway Portal.
At this point both the Archon & Warriors 1 were placed in the Webway and the Scourges mounted up in the Slavebringer.
Placement as the photographs
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 036.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 036.JPG [ 910.89 KiB | Viewed 962 times ]

Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 037.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 037.JPG [ 925.6 KiB | Viewed 962 times ]

Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 038.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 038.JPG [ 1.07 MiB | Viewed 962 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Turn 1 – SR to AMTL
AMTL - Thunderbolts go onto CAP
DE – Razorwings 1 ground attack sentinels 1 in the centre ruins killing 1 Sentinel and placing 2 BM
AMTL – Sentinels 1 Regroup and move back through the ruins & remove all BM
DE - Razorwings 2 ground attack sentinels 2 in the right flank woods killing 1 Sentinel and placing 2 BM
AMTL – Sentinels 2 Regroup, move & remove all BM
DE - Razorwings 3 changes tact and ground attacks Reaver 2 in the centre of the AMTL deployment zone and anchoring the AMTL left flank. They strip a shield and place a BM
AMTL – Reaver 1 Sustain fires targeting Ravager 1 in the centre of the table. Kills two Ravagers placing 3 BM breaking the formation which moves forward behind a central set of ruins.
DE – The warriors on the table march forward behind the hill on the AMTL right flank.
AMTL – Worrying about the Slavebringer and waiting Vessels of Pain the AMTL decide not to over commit their forces and Reaver 3 goes on to Overwatch
DE – Vessel of Pain 2 (on AMTL right flank) doubles forward to target Reaver 4. It pops up from behind a set of ruins and is hit by a barrage of plasma fire from Reaver 3. Both Shadowfields are lost and wound is caused. Firing the Vessel of Pain hits once taking down a shield and placing a BM.
AMTL – Reaver 4 doubles into the ruins to see the Vessel of Pain (2) and firing the Gatling Blasters hitting twice and causing two wounds destroying the war engine.
DE – The Slavebringer ground attacks, Thunderbolts CAP it, taking a BM and stripping a shield and placing a BM in return, landing and disgorges the Scourges. They all shoot Reaver 4and take down a shield and place a BM.
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 054.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 054.JPG [ 837.59 KiB | Viewed 940 times ]

AMTL – (Final Activation of the turn) Reaver 2 doubles forward and is just able to target the Slavebringer – The 8 shots strip the final shield and 3 further hits destroys the aircraft.
DE – Warriors 1 charge out of the Webway Portal and engage Reaver 4 in a firefight (placing the portable Webway as they finish their action). Checking the closest enemy the Reaver moves towards the Scourges taking 4 of the Warriors out of line of sight. However in doing this the Reaver stubs its toe and loses a DC (double 1 for difficult terrane test). Reaver wins combat by 2 and two warriors break back towards the Dark Eldar deployment zone. A BM is placed on the Scourge.
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 056.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 056.JPG [ 927.82 KiB | Viewed 940 times ]

DE – Ravager 2 march across the table to with support range of Sentinels 1
DE – Vessel of Pain 1 advance and fire on Reaver 2 stripping a shield and placing a BM.
DE – Archon engages out of the Portable Portal targeting Reaver 4 again.
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 062.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 062.JPG [ 818.79 KiB | Viewed 940 times ]

The Reaver suffers 3 wounds but still manages to win the combat (the Incubi failed to bring any armour). Both formations break with the Archon retreating back to the ruins in the Dark Eldar deployment zone & the Reaver falling back to the AMTL deployment zone.
Attachment:
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 063.JPG
14-05-06 AMTL vs DE 063.JPG [ 905.98 KiB | Viewed 940 times ]


End of Turn – All formations rally. Razorwing 2 pick up a BM from flying over Reaver 1’s flak.


Last edited by Tiny-Tim on Sat May 17, 2014 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Turn 2 – SR to DE
DE – Vessel of Pain advances (with the help of the Supreme Commander re-roll) on Reaver 2. Strips a shield and places a BM.
DE – Retaining with Ravager 1 they advance and again fire on Reaver 2. Causing a BM and stripping a shield.
AMTL – Thunderbolts ground attack the 3 remaining Ravagers in Ravager 2. Cause 5 hits, all of which are saved. BM placed.
DE – Scourge attempt to advance and fail to activate. They stay still and remove blast markers.
AMTL – Reaver 1 sustain fires at Warriors 2. Taking out a Raider, Venom and 2 Warrior stands p-placing 5BM.
DE – Razorwing 1 ground attacks Sentinels 1 cause two hits, which are both saved (Double 6) leaving only a BM on them.
DE – Razorwing 3 attempt to retain and fail…
AMTL – Reaver 4 advances and fires on the Scourge killing 3 and breaking the formation which fall back to the DE Blitz
DE – Razorwing 2 attempt to intercept the Thunderbolts on a 3+ and fail to activate.
AMTL – Sentinel 1 advance on Ravagers 2, hit twice but only place a BM
DE – Ravager 2 attempt to double on a 3+ and fail to activate. Break and stay where they were.
AMTL – Reaver 3 turns and engages Ravager 1. All Ravager shots miss and the Reaver wins by 2 leaving a lone Ravager to break and run for cover behind the same ruins as Ravagers 2.
DE – Warriors 2 marshal and move further behind the hill and remove all the BM.
AMTL – Sentinel 2 march forward and lose one of their number to a difficult terrain test.
DE – Warriors 1 march forward into the same ruins as Setinels 2
AMTL – Reaver 2 turns and engages the remaining Vessel of Pain. After the combat all the modifiers were even and the AMTL win the roll off by 3 destroying the Vessel of Pain
DE – The Archon moves carefully into cover with his vehicles.

End of Turn - Ravagers 1 fail to rally all others rally and remove BM.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Turn 3 – SR to DE
DE – Ravagers 1 pop up and sustain fire on Reaver 2, hit once and remove a shield placing a BM.
DE – Retaining with Warriors 1 they engage Sentinels 2 and wipe them out for no loss.
AMTL – Reaver 2 doubles up to the DE Blitz and fires on the Scourge wiping them out.
AMTL – Reaver 3 double up to a DE objective ad fire on Warriors 2 killing 3 and breaking the Warriors who decide to stay still.
DE – Razorwing 1 ground attack Sentinels 1 killing 2 and breaking the final sentinel which stays still.
AMTL – Reaver 1 sustain fires at the Archon, destroying 1 vehicle and breaking the formation. Archon made his Inv Sv.
AMTL – Retaining the Thunderbolts ground attack the Archon, destroying the remaining Raider and removing the Archon with BMs. (BTS to AMTL)
DE – Razorwings 2 ground attack Reaver 2. Placing a BM on the titan
AMTL – Reaver 4 doubles and fires on Warriors 1. 1 hit with a failed save which breaks the formation.
DE – Razorwings 3 ground attack Reaver 2. Causing 1 wound and placing 2 BMs on the titan

Final result 4-0 to the AMTL (Blitz, TnH, BTS & TSNP)

I'll add more photos as I can.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Thoughts:

It was an unlucky game for the DE. They should have taken Reaver 4 down in the first turn as it ended up with one wound left at the end of the first turn having broken a Warrior formation and the Supreme Commander’s Incubi. This was followed in the second turn by three failed activations in a row which prevented them from repositioning and resulted in the loss of two further formations.

CAA’s main thought was that he understood why the EUK Macro Cannon is slow firing as the BTS Blitz guard was able to seriously damage a formation each turn whilst in this game being next to invulnerable as the DE couldn’t get to it in numbers.

If the weapon is to stay the same I’d be tempted to suggest that the CLP is dropped from the list. It would free up a titan for more aggressive play.

I didn’t take any Warhounds as if one is taken out then the effect of the God Machine rule would place BM on the other formations in line of sight. This could be in addition to one for being within support range of an engagement which could seriously affect the effectiveness of the formation.

Standard shooting was fine, if DE formations had not been within engage range of the two Plasma Reavers then they would have just been able to reposition in turn two.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 12:10 am 
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Thanks Tim! That's quite a different AMTL list than I usually see. I'd be interested to see a second game against something like IG or regular Eldar sometime. :)

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:21 am 
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Good report.

What are your thoughts on the Laser Burner? I see you took many of them. Having used quite a few of them in a couple of TL games and I'm of the opinion they're a bit too good at present and tough to counter (for assault based armies in particular) as they're excellent in CC and good in FF. I much prefer the Epic-UK stats for the laser burner which makes them even better in FF (+3 FF MW) but with no effect in CC. I suggested switching to these before, probably at a +25 cost, but Vaaish didn't take it up.

If there were to be any changes (I have seen others complain about them but haven't used them personally to be able to judge myself) to the Quake Cannon then I'd probably prefer to see it drop to 2BP. The Epic-UK slow firing version seems a really poor weapon choice and I wouldn't want to adopt that.

With Godengines being the way it is I probably wouldn't bother taking single Warhounds either. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though as background-wise they're meant to be seen in pairs.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:16 pm 
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For my style of play I'd always take a Las Burner wth my forward Reavers to give them a boost in engagements. One thing i will say it that is that I could have had a turn where two of my Reavers did nothing, except for there being two formations just in range of engagements. It isn't so needed for a Warlord. The EUK list goes for either or with the Las Burner and CCW. Which is a more difficult choice to make.

I'd like to try a game with 4 Reavers and Quake Cannons before commenting further as a single Cannon is still only one template.

On the single Warhond issue, I suppose it depends on how old you are to which back ground you look to.

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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:30 pm 
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Interesting report, thanks for sharing! :)
A very nice Dark Eldar army!

and by the way
Tiny-Tim wrote:
Turn 3 – SR to DE
DE – Ravagers 1 pop up and sustain fire on Reaver 2, hit once and remove a shield placing a BM.
....

Skimmers may not pop up when doing a sustained fire order (or marshal).

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:35 pm 
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Borka wrote:
Interesting report, thanks for sharing! :)
A very nice Dark Eldar army!

and by the way
Tiny-Tim wrote:
Turn 3 – SR to DE
DE – Ravagers 1 pop up and sustain fire on Reaver 2, hit once and remove a shield placing a BM.
....

Skimmers may not pop up when doing a sustained fire order (or marshal).

cheers

Now funny you should bring this up as I keep on being told different things. However if you look at the first paragraph of the Skimmer section it says that you can.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
Now funny you should bring this up as I keep on being told different things. However if you look at the first paragraph of the Skimmer section it says that you can.

Yeah I know the text in the rulebook is rather poorly written.

A skimmer may declare that it is popping up at the start of any action that it takes, including when the skimmer goes into overwatch. A skimmer may not pop up as part of a sustained fire action or a marshal action, but may pop-up when it goes onto overwatch.

The first sentence of the paragraph (in green) indicates that you can, just to be directly contradicted by the second sentence (in blue).

I interpreted this as.
A skimmer may declare that it is popping up at the start of any action that it takes, except as part of a sustained fire action or a marshal action, but may pop-up when it goes onto overwatch.

, but it's a badly written rule open to missinterpretation.

However it's covered in the FAQ as well

Q:Can a Skimmer formation/unit do a pop-up attack as part of their Sustained Fire action?
A:No. The unit may not move and therefore may not pop up.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2014 9:09 pm 
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Ah back to the FAQs, I'll have to print them off for CAA. Didn't make any difference. But thanks for the point.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:48 am 
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Weirdly this was on my mind as I biked home today.

Can a skimmer that is already popped up, due to being on overwatch, fire a sustained fire mission.
After shooting I take it that the skimmer would settle back down as for overwatch shooting.

A skimmer popped up on overwatch could (I assume) be shot at so seems fair to let is conduct a
sustained fire shooting mission.


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 Post subject: Re: AMTL (3.22) vs EUK Dark Eldar
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 6:22 am 
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When it's on OW it cant sustain fire since thats another order.

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