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4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion

 Post subject: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:18 am 
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So Warpeace and I played a test game, in this case, it was a 4000 point Steel Legion vs Titan Legion throwdown

My list was as follows:

Warlord, 3 quake cannons and a carapace landing pad. also gave it legate and veteran principe, as I expected it to come under heavy fire in an effort to cripple my long range artillery, as well as being my supreme commander and BTS. none the less, It was clear he would be my toughest unit, and the safest place to leave my Supcom (plus, since his job would be to sit on my blitz and shell the enemy into submission, he should be removed enough from the main fighting, atleast for a while. I Christened him Marvin (as in Earth Shattering Kaboom)

Then I added a pair of anti tank reavers.
It is generally my philosophy with formations, that you should try to keep them relatively specialised. if you make every formation a jack of all trades, you will end up wasting potential in most every action. This is especially true of my experience with titans.
As such, I kitted out my Tank Hunters with two Turbolaser Destructors, and a carapace Laser Blaster each. this gives them a quite impressive 14 3+AT shots a turn, which should be able to deal with any tanks the guard bring along. These two, i named Bonnie and Clyde.

One final reaver was added. this one was to be my infantry killer, and had to be cheap as i was rapidly racking up the points (a 1025 point warlord will do that to a list)
So he got two vulcan megabolters and a plasma blast gun, and was named Sylvester (after the scene from scarface)

So, I've got a good long range anything-it-feels-like killer, and two excellent tank hunters. but I'm still a bit short on the infantry angle, so i go to my standard manhunter design warhounds, being dual inferno cannons.
Warhounds have the speed to capitalise on any gaps in defence, and will be more able to keep up with the repositioning needed to take out infantry formations or mechanised companies. they will also be my backline hunters, targetting artillery and support formations that are too small or spread out to waste Marvin on.
Given the hunting nature of their duties, i split the pair into two singles (though that did increase their cost by 75 points, i considered the ability to put twice as many blast markers on things, to be able to hunt seperate targets/flanks, and the activation advantage to be worth the price.)
These two, were named Fred and Ginger.

then i filled out my points with three thunderbolt formations, which should give me enough air cover to take out any of his fighters, and chase down any remenants of the formations that scatter to my various barrage and fuselade coming off the bigger machines, as well as adding more activations to the mix.


I deploy much as I expected. Marvin takes next to the blitz, position behing a large cathedral (sheltering him from direct fire in most all angles) Fred stays on that flank ready to handle anything coming to disrupt the sustained barrage marvin intends to lay down. Ginger stays on the opposite side of the map, ready to head off any attempts to flank, and retaining position to grab the farthest afield objective and/or clear out the ruins in the centre if they should become infested with infantry. Bonnie stands straight on the road down the centre, facing off against a tank company, while Clyde and Sylvester deploy a little closer towards the main mass of objectives, with the intention of advancing into them.
looking at my opponents list, I see two tank companies, which represent the biggest threat to my big titans, and a lot of hydras and fast moving mech-infantry formations

at this point, I am expecting sylvester will double forwards while the tank hunting duo will advance more slowly (thanks to their increased range, and generallys slower moving targets) though if an opportunity to pounce on the tank companies presents itself, they will be able to double forwards to take the shot. there is virtually no cover for the titans, so there's no reason to be shy with their advance, we'll just have to hope that I can get some solid shots off and reduce the firepower of those incoming tank companies before they can start stripping down my reavers.
my aircraft will attempt to establish air superiority, and otherwise hold back till i can reduce the amount of hydras active in the enemy side of the table.

Attachment:
deploy.png
deploy.png [ 578.31 KiB | Viewed 1416 times ]


at this point i will hand over to Warpeace's activation by activation summary

Turn 1

After deployment, Guard wins the Strat roll and sets a Thunderbolt formation on CAP, ceding the intiative.

Warlord then opens up on Sustained Fire orders, sending a hair of Quake Cannon shots, aimed indirectly thanks to a carapace landing pad-asssisted land speeder scout, hitting all the russes in the road. Shell after shell pounds them, five are hit. Three succumb to the fire, their armor penetrated by the hail of high caliber shells and inflicting 5 blast markers total.

Rough Riders march up the field, intending to get behind the warlord and maybe danaging it in assault over the next turns.

The valient Warhound titan Fred has other ideas however, coating the men in napalm-y death, killing all but two who break and withdraw.

Leman Russes, damaged by the Warlord, marshal and remove 4 blast after having to use the SupCom reroll for activation, while moving forwards again and into position.

Unfortunately their commander made a grand attempt at a Darwin Award this day, ad their advance put them in range of the enemy Reaver titan Bonnie, which advances and unleashed with fourteen AT 3+ shots, killing the hydra, two more russes and the commissar's vanquisher. The formation breaks.

Green Company then doubles into some ruins, attempting to disgorge their infantry into the cover. Firing at Sylvester, a lone infantry autocannon brings down one of the mighty titan's shields.

A Thunderbolt squadron tries to go on CAP but fails, the pricep's reroll letting them succeed on the reroll.

The Guard commander orders his own second Thunderbolt formation has the same misfortune, and has no reroll to fall back on, Standing Down.

Then Sylvester activates, passing activation despite having blast and sending a hail of totally ineffective Vulcan Mega Bolter shots at the infantry hiding in cover, while the Plasma Blastgun disintigrates a lone Chimera. The infantry are completely safe in the deceptively strong ruins.

Next the Regimental HQ doublees as well, getting into the other side of the ruins and opening up at Bonnie. The formation's firepower is impressive, stripping the titan of all but one of her shields!

Then the scout titan Ginger advances, leveraging her Inferno Cannons against the HQ formation, covering them in a swathe of burning napalm! Six brave infantry stands die along with half that many chimeras, and the formation is only one blast from breaking! Oh the humanity!

By way of Response, Grey Company doubles like a champ up towards Ginger and opens fire, both Hydra's shots striping the scout titan of her shields while the infantry and combined chimera multilasers do absolutely nothing.

Bonnie's brother-titan, Clyde, sustains fire on poor Green Company, her turbolasers and laser blaster tuned for Anti-Tank mode. All the company's remaining vehicles are destroyed, and yet the infantry hold together, barely within coherency range!

In an UNPRECEDENTED turn of events, the Legion retains init, succeeding in sending his Thunderbolts on a ground attack zeroed in on the barely holding it together Regimental HQ! The Guard's own Thunderbolts on CAP zoom in to aid them, while the Titan Legion's own CAPing aircraft come in as well! It's turning into quite a tussle in the air now! Unfortunately for the Guard, despite breaking off their attack run to avoid fire the two Thunderbolts are forced to eject their pilots from taking several damaging hits The ground attack completes, with only one stand of infantry dying.Just coming under fire is enough to break the formation however, which withdraws.

Retaliation! The second Leman Russ formation, untouched so far, advances into range of Bonnie and unleashes their primary armament: nine battlecannons and a vanquisher cannon! The devastating result? The Reaver's final shield down. That's it. The Commissar retreats into the body of his tank to personally discipline the gunner's poor aim.

The final Thunderbolt formation zooms in, avoiding active Hydras and finding a safe path to the Regimental HQ in retreat, opening up on the broken formation! The hydra and 3 Chimeras go down to a combination of damage and morale loss.

Both stormtroopers activate and March across the field, getting ready for an assault on the Warlord Titan next turn.

Fighters then disengage. One squadron passes by Grey formation, the hydra lighting up the skies with flak and downing a Thunderbolt! The other makes it out undamaged, and the last eats a blast for disengaging off the Guard's table edge. Bonnie fails to rally, while Sylvester and ginger succeed.

Rough Riders manage to rally as do the men of Green Company, removing 5 blast markers. The broken tanks and regimental HQ both fail to rall, retreating further.

Attachment:
turn1end.png
turn1end.png [ 1.3 MiB | Viewed 1416 times ]


Turn 2

Titan legion wins the strat roll this turn, activating Ginger and roasting 9 Imperial Guardsmen from Grey Company including the Commander-Commissar, and a single Chimera, breaking the formation which retreats.

Retaining, Sylvester engages the rightmost Valkyries and Stormtroopers, the Warlord titan lending supporting fire and wiping them out to a man. The stormtroopers do manage to take down Sylvester's shields, but it doesn't seem the Guard have anything that can capitalize on it.

Remaining Stormtroopers Advance, opening fire on the Warlord. They manage to strip it of its shields but nothing else.

Fred meanwhile advances upon those selfsame Stormtroopers and lights them up with his Inferno Cannons. The intense flames destroy a Valkyrie and two Stormtroopers, but their actual use of armor as opposed to normal guardsmen allows more to survive.

The remaining tanks make a valiant Advance on Bonnie, bringing their hull lascannons into range. Apparently the Commissar's ranting and raving actually had an effect on the formation, as all but one of the tank's main weapons hit, as do two lascannons! The titan is crippled, at least in fictional terms, as it doesn't actually get reflected in gameplay for losing 2/3 of your DC. But yes, it's heavily damaged, and with the previous blast markers, breaks, raising a ragged cheer from any remaining guardsmen alive enough to do so.

The Legion calls on Naval support with a wing of Thunderbolts zooming in at the remaining Stormtroopers. Showing unprecedented skill, the Thunderbolts kill two stormtroopers and a valkyrie, breaking the formation.

Green Company turns its guns on Bonnie, intending to finish off the broken titan. It manages to do nothing.

Marvin opens fire with the big guns at the Leman Russ formation still unbroken, massive shells raining down amongst the armored battle tanks, also hitting the green company's commander and an infantry stand. Luckily the ruins remain unusually strong, and only two normal Leman Russes are incapacitated, along with the company Hydra.

The remaining Guard Thunderbolts zoom in onto the Legion thunderbolts, managing to do nothing but give them a blast.

Retaining, the Guard's remaining Rough Riders manage to engage the Warhound, Fred. Their power lances actually manage to damage some of the titan's leg actuators before it can turn around to retaliate, wiping them out.

The Legion now has nothing left to interrupt their actions, and continue their slaughter. Clyde Advances on the Leman Russes, opening up its laser weapons in a hellstorm of laser madness! Four tanks are destroyed and the formation breaks.

The formation of thunderbolts with a lost 'bolt fails the activation, while the other formation manages to come in for a ground attack, straffing and destroying the remaining HQ units, wiping them out except for the HQ stand itself.

With that, despite Bonnie not rallying, the Guard player has too many broken formations to really do anything, and concedes.

Attachment:
turn2end.png
turn2end.png [ 571.76 KiB | Viewed 1416 times ]


Defeinitely a hard fought game, thought I gotta say I would have been better off not listening to Jagged and swapping a Hydra and the Rough Riders for a pair of Deathstrikes. At the least I'd have probably gotten one of the Reavers down and the firepower that went to them could have gone to finishing Bonnie. But we'll never know. Was fun, but I guess I need to include more TK stuff in my lists to stand a chance vs Titan Legion.

(Actually, what I said was that he would probably need some TK weaponry, but that reducing his infantry capabilities to take a unit of deathstrikes and nothing else to support them would likely not be enough to be worth losing the formation over ~Ed)

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:31 am 
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Thank you! Excellent report!

Just remember, you can't CAP a CAP'ed airplane.

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:41 am 
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yeah quite a mistmatch really!

I would certainly have taken some vultures and deathstrikes as well as a shadowsword or 4 if I'd had 4k and knew I was going up against titans, a titan or two of my own would not be a bad idea either!

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:18 am 
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actually, we agreed on the CAP-a-CAP houserule (on account of how the alternative is stupid)

and his tank company did quite well against Bonnie, if he'd not effectively lost the first of them without a fight, she would have dropped pretty solidly (and likewise, there were times when i was fairly sure ginger and/or fred were gonners)

but yes, certainly taking on a titan list with no TK weaponry proved dangerous decision, and probably not one he'll repeat.

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Last edited by Jaggedtoothgrin on Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:20 am 
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Beautyful report! Excellent the map, but I'm corious,
Have you take pictures during the battle? I've detected a 40k oop cathedral on the map.
:)

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:10 am 
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alas, no photos exist of this game itself, just the maps.

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:25 am 
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Nice report!

Illustrates the classic "first-matchup-against-AMTL-OMGWTFBBQ" syndrome well :)


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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:30 am 
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Thanks for the report. Definitely a different style of play down under as I would have taken more Guard activations in a 4k list before considering anything else. I can't wait to see the rematch though.


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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:47 pm 
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So I'm glad people enjoyed the report! And yeah, I really should have taken some Swadowswords, shouldn't I? Going against titans, if I could go back in time and change my list I'd probably have swapped the tank companies for Shadowsword platoons, a pair of them, and use the saved points to get another Thunderbolt squadron or two. Vultures sound nice, but I'm really not a huge fan. Long range 2+ AT is some good clean fun but the fact that it's SS and the enemy will get their saves just fine against it, makes it, to my mind, a formation that is better for zooming to an enemy Bassi/Manticore company and shredding them with their low saves.

Can't wait to play Jagged again though! Trying one of his armylists next, then we've got a MEGABATTLE planned! Look forward to it!


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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:06 pm 
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Warpeace wrote:
Long range 2+ AT is some good clean fun but the fact that it's SS and the enemy will get their saves just fine against it, makes it, to my mind, a formation that is better for zooming to an enemy Bassi/Manticore company and shredding them with their low saves.


They're great at stripping Titan shields prior to launching deathstrikes. A Vulture formation plus a Deathstrike battery can very nearly, on average, kill an intact Reaver in one activation, from range 120cm. With luck, they can kill a Warlord (6.67 (max 8 ) AT hits, followed by 5.83 (max 12) TK hits). Not bad for 500 points worth of formations, where the Vultures are perfectly useful afterwards too.


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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:15 pm 
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yeah, vultures are, in my mind, basically ONLY usefull for stripping shields of a titan before the (death)strike, and/or hunting artillery formations. otherwise they're a total waste of single shot weaponry. they are cool though. it's just kinda sad that the vendetta are better tank hunters in most every situation.

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I've found them really useful in T3 (if your opponent lets them live....) as objective grabbers/deniers

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:35 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I've found them really useful in T3 (if your opponent lets them live....) as objective grabbers/deniers

Yeah unless you're doing quite well, there are usually more tasty targets than finishing off already-fired vultures :)

Was surprised to see no deathsrtikes or even shadowswords, but it seemed like some of the important shooting didn't exactly go to plan either.

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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Good to see the report :)

In all my games I don't think I've met anyone that wanted to play the CAP a CAP house rule but I'd refuse to myself; it gives too much advantage to the person with more fighter formations.

Could you post up your army list Warpeace? Tank Companies aren't all that well regarded by many people. Storm Troopers are rarely used also. I'm curious how many activations you had, somewhere in the 13-15 range is best for 4k. Some artillery could have done well for, particularly Manticore batteries – if you were to fire all 3 in the battery in the first turn (in other circumstances it's normally better to fire 2 in turn 1 and 1 in turn 2) you could have have placed 2 Blast Markers minimum on a target.

In any 4k game (even if not knowing you were playing a Titan Legion) you should take some kit to deal with Titans. 2 individual Shadowswords would be a minimum, perhaps 3 (or Deathstrikes and Vultures).

To give you some tips for future, with your army vs the Titans I would spread the formations out as much as possible to reduce damage from the nasty 3 barrage MW hits and also position so that the barrages (which have to be targeted to hit the maximum number of models possible in the target unit) don't in that hit the Hydra, having it further away from the bulk of the formation. I would also target the Warhounds as much as possible and only go after the other Titans once they are dead (or at least broken, but preferably dead). The trick with playing Titans is to reduce their already low activation number to a really low number, then gang up on the big stuff and/or focus more on winning the objectives.

caregadras wrote:
Beautyful report! Excellent the map, but I'm corious,
Have you take pictures during the battle? I've detected a 40k oop cathedral on the map.
:)

It's a game of epic online, using Vassal with the Epic module. Jagged is Australian while Warpeace is in the US if I remember correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: 4k Steel Legion Vs Titan Legion
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:53 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
In all my games I don't think I've met anyone that wanted to play the CAP a CAP house rule but I'd refuse to myself; it gives too much advantage to the person with more fighter formations.


agreed, not to mention making air-assaults even better when you can fly your interceptors on to shoot down planes targeting your vampire/thawk/orca

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