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3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.

 Post subject: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:57 am 
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Ok, yesterday we played our first 3000p NetEA battle. We missed alot of rules and also did some mistakes with flyers. But here it is anyways

My opponent (Uvenlord on this forum) had the following army:

Iron Hands, 3000 POINTS
Codex Astartes (NetEA Army Compendium v20120208)
==================================================

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [375]
6 Tacticals, Dreadnought, Vindicator, Rhinos

TACTICAL DETACHMENT [275]
6 Tacticals, Rhinos

ASSAULT DETACHMENT [175]
4 Assault Units

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators, Rhinos

DEVASTATOR DETACHMENT [250]
4 Devastators, Rhinos

VINDICATORS [225]
4 Vindicators

WHIRLWINDS [300]
4 Whirlwinds

THUNDERHAWK [200]

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [175]
2 Thunderbolts

MARAUDER BOMBERS [250]
2 Mauraders

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

I played with:

WARLORD TITAN [1000]
Legate, Carapace Multi-Lasers, 2 Quake Cannon, Apocalypse Rocket Launcher, Carapace Landing Pad

REAVER TITAN [750]
Apocalypse Rocket Launcher, Carapace Multi-Lasers, Veteran Princeps, Turbolaser Destructor, Laser Blaster

WARHOUND TITAN [300]
Turbolaser Destructor, Vulcan Megabolter

WARHOUND TITAN [300]
Vulcan Megabolter, Turbolaser Destructor

RECON PLATOON [100]
4 Sentinels

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150]
2 Thunderbolts

MARAUDER BOMBERS [250]
2 Marauders

And heres how it went:

TURN 1:

Marines win initiative and lets AMTL go first.

Warlord sustains and hits the marine BTS (tacticals with vindicators and dreadnought) with all his BP killing 5 tactical stands and 2 rhinos. The BTS formation breaks.

Devastators double move into ruins on the center-left flank.

Sentinels tries to go on overwatch but fails its initiative and makes a move into a nearby forest on a hill on the right flank.

Marine Vindicator formation advances up on a hill on the right flank and shoots on the sentinels that just moved into the woods. Manage to kill 2 Sentinels and breaks the formation. The rest of the formation dies when its not able to move into coherency on its fall back move.

A AMTL Warhound double moves in to the same forest as the Sentinels previously occupied and fires back at the Vindicators on the hill in front of them. Kills 2.

Marine Marauders ground attacks the other AMTL Warhound in the center of the board. AMTL Thunderbolts tries to intercept but looses 1 aircraft from Marauder AA fire. They fail to hurt the Marauders back. The Marauders then manage to strip both shields on the Warhound.

On the far left flank AMTL Marauders ground attacks tactical marines but gets intercepted by marine Thunderbolts who kills 1 of them. The marauders then proceed to kill 1 stand of tacticals.

Marine Whirlwinds sustainfire and puts a barrage template on the Warhound in the centre that has no shields, Manage to hurt it with 1 damage.

The no damaged warhound double moves to the right flank and shoots at the already damaged Vindicator formation on the hill. Kills 1 Vindicator and breaks the formation.

Marine Devastators now double move into a building on the center-right flank and shoots at the damaged Warhound. Nothing happens (only a BM).

AMTL Thunderbolts ground attacks the lone Vindicator on the left flank but fails to hurt it.

The marine Thunderhawk ground assaults the Reaver Titan with Devastators and Assault Marines. Devastators strip 2 void shields, Assault marines do 1 damage. The Reaver Titan kills 2 assault marines.
The Reaver wins the assault and the Thunderhawk dies while the Devastators and The remaining assault marines flee in opposite directions.

The Reaver tries to adveance after the fleeing Devastators thats has taking refuge in a nearby ruin on the left flankbut fails it's initiative and shoots at the formation instead killing 2 stands.

The marines double moves a tactical formation into a building on the center-left flank.

The Marine Waround advances on the right flank towards the AMTL Warhounds thats in the forest. It then shoots and strips 1 void shield.

That ends TURN 1. Pretty even deathtoll. AMTL aircrafts had a bad run and got hurt. But the marien BTS is in a really bad shape also.

TURN 2:

Marines win the initiative again.

The Marine Warhound double moves into the forest on the right flank and fires at the damaged AMTL Warhound there and kills it.
The Marine BTS tries to retain initiative but fails and just moves a little bit.

The AMTL Marauders ground attacks the tactical formation that hides in the building on the center-left flank but only manages to put 2 BM on it.

Marine Marauders then ground attack the Reaver Titan. 1 Marauder is gunned down by the Titans AA-fire, the other one misses all his attacks.

The marines then retain the initiative with a tactical formation thats holed up on the center-right flank i a buidling. They sustain fire on the remaining Warhound on the left flank and strips 2 shields in the process.

The same Warhound then sustain fire from within the woods at the Marine BTS-formation killing 1 Rhino, 1 tactical stand and 2 Vindicators. The formation breaks.

The lone Vindicator on the hill that managed to rally in the end phase of turn 1 now fires at the Warhound i nthe forest. It damages the titan and breaks it.

The AMTL Warlord Titan then sustains fire on the tactical squad in the building on the center-left flank and kills 2 stands. The Reaver Titan then retains the initiative shoots at the still broken assault formation killing 1 stand.

The now rallied Devastators in the ruins on the left flank double moves and fires at the Reaver Titan, stripping 1 shield.

AMTL Thunderbolts ground attacks Whirlwind formation in the center of the board, killing 2 of them in the process.

The Marine Thunderbolts then intercepts the Marauders and kills them off.

AMTL Thunderbolts ground attack the lone dreadnought that is the last remaining model in the Marine BTS-fotmation on the left flank. But they fail to do any damage to it.

Marines tries to sustain fire with their damaged Whirlwind formation but fails and regroups.

Tacticals in the building on the center-left flank sustain fire on the Reaver Titan but only puts a BM on it.

That ends turn 2. The Marine BTS is hanging on by a thread, but on the other side the smaller Titans (Warhounds and Reaver) are now starting to feel the pain and also the AML airforce is really hurting. The only formation on the AMTL side that is doing great is the BTS-Warlord that sits on the AMTL Blitz.

Turn 3:

Marines wins the initiative again.

Devastators on the left flank sustain fire on the Reaver Titan but fails to hit it.

The Warlord Titan then sustain Fire on the other Devastator formation thats in the ruins on the center-left flank but only manages to kill 1 stand.

The Reaver then retains the initiative (with the help of a Legate re-roll) and double moves up to contest both AMTL T&H objectives. It also fires at the same Devastator formation as the Warlord and kills of 1 Rhino and 2 Devastator stands. The formation breaks.

Marine Whirlwinds then sustain fire on the Reaver Titan but only puts a BM on it.

The Marines then tries to retain initiative with the Devastators on the left flank but fails and puts another BM on the reaver.

AMTL Thunderbolts ground attacks the tactical formation in the building on the center-left flank and kills 2 Rhinos and 2 Tactical stands. The formation breaks.

Marine Thunderbolts ground attacks the Reaver and puts a BM on it.

The lone AMTL Thunderbolt atatcks the BTS-Dreadnought but just puts a BM on it.

Marines then Ground atatcks the Reaver with its Marauder and breaks it They also double move their tactical formation from the center-right flank to the center-left flank and shoots at the Reaver also.

In the end phase the Reaver fails to rally and the Marines win with 2-0 (T&H and TSNP).

This was a very fun but also long and confusing battle (4,5 hours i think). We did mistakes with BP on titans and alot of things with the fliers. You guys can probably spot more stuff we missed.
But it was a very fun game!! The TSKNF rule for marines is awesome and makes them really hard to break.

Looking forward to the next game!

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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:32 am 
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remember the dread has ATSKNF so it takes two blast markers to kill it if broken, if it's alone then you have to actually kill it, placing a BM won't do the job....

it's why I hate marines so damn much..... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:42 am 
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Yea! It was a fun and sometimes confusing battle :)
Lessons learned:
The Marines was far tougher then in previous versions of epic.
Take notice if the warlord is equipped with indirect fire weapons when you setup your biggest unit :)
Do not engage an unharmed titan with a thunderhawk.
Learn the rules a little better...


Quote:
Did the marine BTS rally during the end phase of turn 1? If not I think this dread would have died just from being attacked (broken formations losing units for every blast marker placed)

The broken dreadnought wasn't afraid of some lone thunderbolt, "they shall know no fear" special rule... (unless we misread something of course)

edit: to slow...


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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:58 am 
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elsmore wrote:
Ah, I'll stick to painting. ;)

ha! :D


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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:52 pm 
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I confess I skimmed looking for what the Warlord was doing. When I noticed he sustained for the whole game I knew the AMTL was going to lose :(

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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Thanks for the report, I agree with carlos, if the Warlord isn't at the heart of the game the AMTL are going to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:12 pm 
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yeah, I think the 'standard' use of the warlord is to put your T&H objectives as close to the centreline as possible, 30cm apart, deploy the warlord 15cm in, right in line with the midpoint, T1 march to claim them both, then shoot the crapola out of anything that comes close, marshalling shields as and when required...... alternatively you can single and shoot each turn, for the same desired end result

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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:05 pm 
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Personally, I frequently field a Warlord with 2QC+CLP as a blitz guard. Unless the opponent actively tries to do something about it, it just sits and sustains, denying Blitz and BTS. There's points left over for another battle titan to move up and take T&H.


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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:22 am 
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SpeakerToMachines wrote:
Personally, I frequently field a Warlord with 2QC+CLP as a blitz guard. Unless the opponent actively tries to do something about it, it just sits and sustains, denying Blitz and BTS. There's points left over for another battle titan to move up and take T&H.


This was my plan exactly. I've red your battle reports and army suggestions. My mistake was that i tried to cover the whole table ftom the beginning instead of concentratibg on one flank first... I've should have kept one of the warhounds close to my Reaver and just secured the right flank in turn 1 and 2.

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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:40 am 
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mordoten wrote:
My mistake was that i tried to cover the whole table ftom the beginning instead of concentratibg on one flank first...


AMTL does concentration of force very well, but have trouble holding area. Unless otherwise indicated, my standard plan is to go for BTS and either T&H or Blitz, for a two goal win in turn 4:

1) Air+Artillery AMTL can effectively deny HTL and T&H
2) Artillery Warlord can effectively deny Blitz and BTS by camping the backline (possibly with a sentinel screen)
3) AMTL can break or destroy enemy formations through shooting; it doesn't need to engage. It can frequently kill the opponent BTS, no matter where it is positioned. By late turn 4, it should also be possible to create unpatchable breaks in the enemy line.
4) A steadily advancing battle titan is hard to turn aside, and can reasonably be expected to deny TSNP. With help, it can also secure T&H.
5) Warhounds have excellent mobility for late-game objective grabs, running through gaps to grab the Blitz (after artillery has broken any blitz guard).
6) If the plan goes awry (as plans are wont to do, in the face of smart opponents and hostile dice), it is usually possible to fall back to a draw on objectives and a (boring) win on points. It is usually the "get goals" part that falters, the "deny goals to opponent" part is easier to achieve.

Some thoughts on your lists:

Why the missile launcher on the Artilly Titan? Yes, 3BP extra sounds nice, but I'd not give up the MW for anything. I'd recommend swapping it for a support missile (for a solid engine kill, my preference) or a titan CCW (for dissuading terminators and their ilk, it doesn't need a sentinel screen anymore with a CCW).

The marine list seemed a bit light on AA - a single formation of marine T'Bolts should have seen your airforce run roughshod all over him.

mordoten wrote:
AMTL Thunderbolts tries to intercept but looses 1 aircraft from Marauder AA fire

Never expose your interceptors to AA from their target unless absolutely necessary - being able to fly off the table with no BMs, ready for next turn, is invaluable. It's better to do less damage (and assured BMs) to the opponent than to risk your own assets.

mordoten wrote:
AMTL Thunderbolts ground attack the lone dreadnought that is the last remaining model in the Marine BTS-fotmation on the left flank. But they fail to do any damage to it.

This is the sort of thing that 6BP barrages are made for; as long as you pass activation, you generate a guaranteed 2BMs, which kills one broken marine. If you have a shot that can secure the BTS goal, then be sure to take it.


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 Post subject: Re: 3000p AMTL vs Space Marines.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:05 am 
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thank you very much for your ideas and help!

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