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3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron

 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Rules used:
- Neals changedoc/Handbook 2008
- Flyers cannot contest objectives on the turn they land
- Vindicator cannon as in rulebook
- EC SR 4, strategy roll 2d6

Emperor's Children


(the pink boots.. I'm still missing 40mm round bases)
Chosen (with Sorceror)       500
Daemon Knights               450
Daemon Knights               450
Retinue (5 Noise)
+ Daemon Prince with Wings
+ Rhinos                    375
Legionnaires                 250
Subjugator                   225
Questor                      275
Questor                      275
Hell Blades                  200

(2.02 costs. Actually the result would be similar with 2.0..)
Hell Blades: sv 6+, 2x 30cm 4+/6+/6+ FxF

Scions of Iron


Terminators + 2 LR Crusaders 500
Thawk Transporters           250
Thawk CAS                    250
Thawk SB                     250
LR Helios Det + Hunter       575
Tactical (Vindicator,
         Prometheus)        450
Armour (4 Predators, Hunter) 350
Bikes (4 + LS Tornado)       225
Thunderbolts                 150






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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:20 pm 
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Ooh two armies I'm doing at the moment. Looking forward to seeing what happens :)

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:08 pm 
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Go Pink Marines!

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:39 pm 
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SETUP

We rolled for setup strategy roll (higher picks side and deploys first etc.). Scions win and choose one side. Then objetives were placed.

Scions have nothing to garrison. EC garrisons Legionnaires next to Blitz (on retrospect, should have garrisoned Daemon Knights in Overwatch, as I usually do, but well... wanteds to have more formations to deploy to control that part)



One objective in far right side if you missed it.
Scions from left to right: Predators, Helios, Tactical and Bikes.
EC from left to right: Questor #2, Daemon Knights #2, and then Subjugator, Legionnaires, Retinue behind Questor #1 and Daemon Knights #1.


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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:09 pm 
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TURN 1
Initiative: EC

Hell Blades are put to CAP. Thunderhawk CAS attacks Daemon Knights #1 and kills one (the power, the power...). Questor #1 doubles to center of the table, opens fire at bikes... and kills one after saves. Thunderhawk SB bombs Retinue and kills 3 Noise Marines. So much for Marine Armour.

At this point we notice that I had not put Hell Blades anywhere. We rolled for position and they were in that right corner. Which resulted in not-so-interesting rules thing: according to (some? =) rulings, these CAP fighters are not yet on the board, but the position only determines where they will enter the board. Now the Thunderhawks were so positioned that if Hell Blades ever enter the board, they will get 4x AA attacks. For me, this seems completely unfair - either put them to side of the board and they can then AA if any flyers comes close by, or allow them to come to CAP mission from any point on own side. Now this rule means that if any fighters are put to CAP, the enemy can fly any bomber or similar to face the entry point, thus getting free AA shots. Shouldn't it be the CAp fighters that hunt the bombers, not vice verse?

Anyway, onward with the game. EC Retinue marshals, moves a bit and removes all blast markers. Bikes marshal (with snake eyes) and move a bit to new position behind the hill in the center. Legionnaires stay in Overwatch.

Then Thunderbolt transporters come soaring down at Daemon Knights #2.



In the engagement, 4 Daemon Knights are destroyed. Daemon Knights rout to hide behind the buildings (and prevent Predator advance a bit).

Questor #2 opens sustained fire at Thunderhawk Transporters (I was pretty sure that otherwise they will cause problems later on with their 4x AP4+ shots - plus an activation! - and there was this thing that if either one is destroyed, the other is wiped when it fails to retreat...) ...but only causes 1 damage to both with no critical. Damn!

Thunderbolts ground attack SUbjugator but only cause one blast marker. Subjugator repositions itself a bit and shoots at Thunderhawk Transporter (second change to wipe them out!) but misses... Not my day.

Predators then double toward Questor #1, open fire but only drop 2 void shields as it is hiding in woods. Daemon Knights #1 marshal and advance a bit. Helios detachment doubles to hill, opens fire at Questor #1 and causes one damage to it, causing it to rout to ruins behind the hill. Finally Tactical detachment marches to center of the battlefield.


(Advancing Marine Armour.)

All flyers exit without blast markers, hell Blades stay on CAP, and all formations rally.


(end of turn 1, before flyers exit or formations rally)






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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:32 pm 
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TURN 2 - the turn of the retains

Scions are most probably going to win the initiative, but neverthless it is time to call for Chosen again! At least it would make it a bit harder for Scions to decide on first activation(s). And thus Chosen teleport next to Predators (no much threat from Predators nor Helioses and against Thawks cover is not that useful).

Initiative: Scions

Predator Annihilator double away from Chosen and open fire at Daemon Knights #1, destroying one. Terminator retain the initiative, engage the Questor #2 and hit with practically all their firefight attacks, including Multi-Meltas in Land Raider Crusaders. No much chance for the Questor, but it takes one Terminator with it (it should have survived that, but well..)

Chaos Strikes Back: The remaining retinue doubles toward Helios formation (BTS!) and fires a blast marker at them. Chosen then engages them from the other side, and with their 2+ FF and with help of Daemon Prince TK ff support they destroy and hack down all but one tank (oh if I would have rolled a bit better in combat resolution and that would have been BTS goal for me!). The last tank routs next to building on the center next to one objective.


Thunderhawk CAS then bombs Questor #1 at ruins but only drop one void shield. Daemon Knights #2 try to take the BTS, engage the remaining Helios... but it saves and in exhcnage luckily hits other Knight which fails to save and then the remainign one loses attack resolution - yet again the loyal Marines prevail! You could hear the scream of Slaanesh - or maybe not over the scream of the EC commander.

Thunderhawk SB starts a bomb run against Legionnaires but is first Intercepted by CAPing Hell Blades. One damage is caused but no critical, and thus bombs are dropped but only one Legionnaire is lost. Next, Questor #1 marshals in the ruins and kills one Predator with its guns. Before the remaining loyal fighters can hit, the Daemon Knights #1 retain and engage predator, killing 2 and routing the remaining 2 to hills in far right corner.

Bikes then advance to position behind the retinue and tries to shoot the Rhino next to Daemon Prince. Tactical Detachment retains and advances and gets Retinue in crossfire. Remaining 2 Noise Marines and 2 Rhinos are lost and Daemon Prince and Rhino flees to woods on loyal edge.


(Retinue caught in Crossfire after their pincer attack)

Legionnaires try to do something but only hold. Thunderhawk transporters stand down with their 4 blast markers. Subjugator advances to tactical 33cm range of Terminators, shoots at remaining Helios - but misses (I simply hate the pain to destroy last ATSKNF unit... but what can I say, it is even worse against fearless..)


(right flank with Thunderhawks after Hell Blades)

Finally, Thunderbolts intercept Hellblades and succeed to shoot one down.

All formations rally.
(EDIT: actually here I make a small but actually - in retrospect - crucial error. The formation with Daemon Prince and Rhino should have ended with no blast markers as DP is leader, but I left it with one. This way it would not have been in 'one blast marker away from rout'. i.e. not routable by just giving an evil eye from passing-by flyer)


(at the end of turn 2. Sorry for tilted camera, it is hard to take pictures with hands stick to roof...)


(Casualties of turn 1 (front) and 2 (back))


(Casualties of turn 1 (back) and 2 (front))






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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:39 pm 
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More to come... tomorrow!


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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Which resulted in not-so-interesting rules thing: according to (some? =) rulings, these CAP fighters are not yet on the board, but the position only determines where they will enter the board. Now the Thunderhawks were so positioned that if Hell Blades ever enter the board, they will get 4x AA attacks... Now this rule means that if any fighters are put to CAP, the enemy can fly any bomber or similar to face the entry point, thus getting free AA shots.


Sorry to interrupt the batrep, but this isn't correct.  Only ground flak get "pass by" AA fire.  Aircraft do not get to fire AA unless the enemy aircraft is within range and fire arc at the end of the move.  4.2.4, first sentence of the last paragraph (emphasis added):
Ground units that are armed with AA weapons can shoot
at enemy aircraft as they move past them.  To represent
this, they may shoot at an aircraft formation that moved
within their weapon range during their approach or
disengagement move, even if the aircraft is no longer
within weapon range when the attack is made.
Aircraft don't have any parallel language.  They fire according to the basic language, which says after the approach moves.  It wouldn't be possible for bombers to do this.

As it is, the Thawks landed, which turns them into ground units.  They do get their AA attacks at that point.  This technique was brought up but I figured with all the other tweaks to the aircraft rules that the "mobile AA" technique wouldn't be as viable.  Even here I think it could have been easy to avoid.

I'm also a bit curious why they didn't intercept the Thawks anyway.  The Thawks weren't ground units at that point and just the BM would have made a difference of +2 in the assault resolution.

Edit:  I just realized that if you were counting "fly-by" defensive AA attacks it would have been near-suicide.

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:34 pm 
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*interrupting*

Here exactly happed this we always complained in the Marine List. 3 single Scout Titans. shouldn?t they also be more expensive if taken singles not pairs in the EC list. They are also Marines and host the same weaknesses. (more or less :p )

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:01 pm 
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Speaking of slaanesh scout titans... Did anyone see how much the last Questor and Subjugator went for on e-bay? 26 GBP each.  I'll never afford them at this rate :(

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the game...

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:02 pm 
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(Soren @ Jan. 22 2008,13:34)
QUOTE
Here exactly happed this we always complained in the Marine List. 3 single Scout Titans. shouldn?t they also be more expensive if taken singles not pairs in the EC list.

It is a bit sad that they are about the only way to get some sensible number of activations in that list... :/

And marines have thunderhawk in main list, so... =]


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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:13 pm 
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(rpr @ Jan. 22 2008,12:02)
QUOTE
And marines have thunderhawk in main list, so... =]

Thats really no argument  ???

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 Post subject: 3k Emperor's Children vs. Scions of Iron
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:20 pm 
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(Markconz @ Jan. 22 2008,12:01)
QUOTE
Speaking of slaanesh scout titans... Did anyone see how much the last Questor and Subjugator went for on e-bay? 26 GBP each. ?I'll never afford them at this rate :(

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the game...

Yes, I was watching that. Have started to convert subjagators from old Warhounds using titan chainfists and new 40k chaos marine chainswords.

I also agree with rpr that single war engines are needed with this list to bring up the activation count, I am currently looking at playing with 4 Questors / Subjagators.

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