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Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:23 am 
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(Hena @ Jan. 03 2008,18:37)
QUOTE
Turn 1

Initiative: Eldar

Game started with Phantom advancing and shredding 3 Helioses to bits (it couldn't reach more!).

Oh god!  Why to deploy Helios in open vs Eldar?!  :p  

Poor old phantom, very unlucky to go down to a few tacticals and warhound like that. Good luck for eldar is the firestorm gunning down the t-hawk.  Why Nightwings not used to kill these though? Guess overwhelmed with targets and bad activations, but killing off enemy air vital in this I would have thought.

Great report anyway :) Armies look very nice.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:38 am 
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(Hena @ Jan. 03 2008,19:09)
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1. The Thunderhawk Transports are hard to use. Only combo that I can come up with anymore is Terminators with 2 Crusaders. Must try that. I'm certainly tempted to upgrade the FF to 4+ and see it helps. The models are just huge so it's hard to fit them anywhere and they will take support fire from all around (due to their sheer size). Certainly pure air assault with Marines isn't gonna work. Alternatively could use them to drop Annihilators to nice crossfire situation for shooting without penalties? Anyone willing to try out on making these things work would be appreciated in here :).

I'm too poor to own any of these at the moment, but yes just looking at it I think termis and crusaders is most feasible option. Indeed the termis and crusaders is very potent formation I think, and I rescind my earlier preplaytesting opinion (that the discount for not taking teleport should be 50 rather than 25 for termis). Annihilator drop might work...  might proxy the transporters in a game and see if it actually works. Trouble I see is that predators are fast enough to get most places quickly without needing the air drop.

4. I think I detect a bit of a problem. Marines main stay of attack is assaults. This list is tad underpowered in that regards to normal Marines as Tacticals are smaller and costlier and there is no Speeder and Devastator formations. Bikes do stand out in that sense.

If I understand you correctly, what you call a problem I think is part of this lists character. No not as good in assaults (well CC, FF is still pretty good and especially with the armour protection), so you really have to use your superior shooting ability to good advantage. Even tacticals have extra shooting due to the armour support, and they can still assault reasonably well if you are careful (or lucky like against phantom in this game  :;): ).

5. It might be worthwhile to drop the Scout Bikes and go back to regular ones. The Scout bikes didn't really give positive picture of themselves in this battle. Sod as this makes the list a bit more unstable that I had hoped at this point :(.
Yes I'd do this, and release new version of list...  :;):
Minor detail and not reflective of much instability I think.

Curious, what is your reasoning in not allowing landspeeder formations?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:01 am 
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Ah yes sorry I see the design notes, and in fact have read them but forgotten... Maybe allowing 4 strong landspeeder formations might be ok, they are sort of a light armoured unit, and it would be a bit of fast recon that the scout bikes were supposed to be?

Will use T-hawks on CD's for the transporters :D

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Charad
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:32 am 
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Few things I remember from that battle.
-I lost every iniative
-At first round four hold activations (once I used SC and it helped)
-I didn't save much on that game and also hena's criticals hurt a lot. :)
- I hitted with my AA. Even at end phase my phantom hitted 3 times out of four at 6+. That didn't help a thing though... :(
-scions list is hard to play, and guardians give them serious kicking in assaults. (except against that warhound which just saved almost everything and hit everytime) :D
-Nice game again, lets test it more. :D
-Scions list is now quite reliant to thawks. Too much?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:39 am 
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(Charad @ Jan. 04 2008,07:32)
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-Scions list is now quite reliant to thawks. Too much?

I've only used a single t-hawk in each of the three 3K games I've played.  I'm not sure I'd describe it as reliant on them. I prefer racing around with lots of tanks.  Hena likes them though it seems... :;):

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Soren
 Post subject: Batrep: Scions of Iron vs Ulthwe, 3k
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:35 am 
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Mhm, Scions need to rely on Firepower and Thawks can deliver this to a point normally not reachable to the rest of the army. I think without Thawks the list would perform MUCH less.

To speeder formations: Nearly every armored force uses light armored scouts to bring them to their targets. else they are nearly blind in their tincans.  I don?t think bikes should do that job as speeders are really made for this.

The second point: Scions are weak in assault. right. Thats not a problem as long as they get enough firepower to compensate this. Hena, I think you were REALLY lucky. Under normal conditions Eldar titans are the end of any marine attempt to win a game. (At least in our games)

And really nice armies.

Soren

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