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[batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts

 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Today I had a 3000 point fight of Demiurg (me) vs. Imperial Guard (Hena).

Rules used:
 Latest changedocs (EA handbook 2008)
 Flyers cannot contest objectives on the turn they land
 Demolisher as in original rulebook
 (some fine-tuning with skimmers, pop-up and LoS)

Armies:
Imperial Guard    3000 pts
Regimental HQ
 + Hydra
 + Griffons          650
Super Heavy Tanks
 (3 Baneblades)
 + Hydra            550
Leman Russ Company
 + Hydra            700  (bts)
Rough Riders      150
Sentinels            100
Shadowsword    200
Artillery Battery
 (3 Manticores)  250
Artillery Battery
 (3 Bombards)   250
Thunderbolts     150
(Commissar in all but Artillery Batteries - and Thunderhawks of course)


Demiurg     2990 pts
Goliaths          400
Land Train
  +2 Pilum Cars  400
Overlord            200
Trikes (8 + HGC)
 + T.F.               325
Iron Eagles        200
Heartguard Cavalry
 + Legate          350
Sandhogs (6 + HG)
 + Merchant Prince  350
Arsmen (6)
 + 2 Bikes + HG + T.F.
 + 4 Rhinos         415 (bts)
Grand Battery
  (6 Mole Mortars)
 + 3 Thudd Gun    350






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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:55 pm 
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SETUP

IG won setup roll (d6 + strategy) and decides to take one side.
IG garrisones Rough Riders to far right flank and Sentiles to middle, Demiurg garrisones Trikes to their right flank, Goliaths and Grand Battery to woods close to Blitz and Sappers to buildings near the center.

For setup, Demiurg and IG face each other. Shadowsword is in left IG flank, Manticores on Blitz and remaining troops between them, with Baneblades controlling the road.


(objectives are still old SM2 stuff)


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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:35 pm 
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TURN 1
Nothing in reserve. Initiative: Demiurg

Land Train sustains and shoots both Pilums (Rad Bombs!) to top of the Leman Russes - destroying 5! The remaining fall back behind the hill. Goliaths retain, target the remaining Leman Russes and wipe them out with 7 blast markers - so much for the IG BTS!

2 IG Bombards open fire at Mole Mortars, destroys total of 5 units and rout remaining. 2 IG Manticore retains, opens fire at Land Train and some HG Cavalry units but destroys just one HG.

HG Cavalry marshals and takes a bit better position behind the hill.
Thunderbolts soar dowbn, attack Trikes but only manage to cause one hit which is saved (!)

Iron Eagles advance toward Rough Riders, open fire but miss. Shadowsword doubles on left flank, opens fire at Land Train, penetrates Particle Shield and detonates the Land Train with 3 damage! Remaining empty Pilum carss fall back.

Armsmen board their Rhinos and march to right flank to stop Shadowsword advance. Sentinels try to catch with them but hold and just advance a bit.

Trikes engage Rough Riders but only 3 are in range. They manage to destroy one Rough Rider and break the rest, melting one fleeing horsepair. Banblades double toward buildings at the center, open fire at Sappers but cause no hits.

Sappers marshal their blast markers and reposition a bit. IG Regimental HQ doubles and opens fire at Armsmen. Over 20 dice are rolled...



..and none hit.

Overlord double and shoots at Regimental HQ. 9 units are under bombs but only one Chimera is destroyed by battle cannons.

--
At the end phase, Mole Mortars fail to rally even with SC reroll, Rough Riders rally as does Land Train cars. Trikes, Sentinels and Armsmen fail to remove blast markers.


(end of turn 1/start of turn 2)


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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:48 pm 
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TURN 2:
Still no reserves. Initiative: Demiurg (oh yeah)

Goliaths open fire at Regimental HG. The earth shakes but only 4 are destroyed (but 8 blast markers). HG Cavalry retains and engages with help of Merchant Prince persuasion the Regimental HQ..



..casualties are quite low but Regimental HQ is forced to retreat.

Now it is time for IG. Single Bombard bombs Armsmen and destroys 2 Armsmen and one Rhino. Roigh Riders retain and engage Trikes. Casualties are heavy but Rough Riders are routed yet again and all but commissar hacked down. He gallops to forest close to second objective.

Trikes with 4 blast markers tries to marshal, fails and holds and regroups. Thunderbolts soar down at Armsmen, destroy 3 and routs the BTS formation. Demiurg armor is useless this turn...



Iron Eagles double toward Manticores but manage to hit only once which is saved (argh this reminds me of EC vs AMTL and invulnerable hydra packs...). Manticores tries to sustain back, but holds, SC tries to talk sense but that is a bit hard when Regimental HQ is in retreat and thus Manticores stay on hold.

Overlord moves behind the woods and opens fire at Sentinels.. one kill is needed but misses. Baneblades tries to advance but holds - they open fire at Sappers but miss.

Sappers have a momentary loss of common sense and charge Baneblades. Although all reach melee combat, none of them hits (7 4+ rolls, no hits) and in return, 4 of them are killed and formation routs. Merchant Prince is trampled over when Sappers rout to close to Bombards.

Sentinels advance toward Armsmen, open fire but only kill one via blastmarkers. Land Train fails to marshal, holds and regroups.

Shadowsword speeds forward, engages Armsmen and wipes them out by winning the engagement against routed formation - here goes BTS (and yes I really forgot that routed formation is destroyed if it loses engagement)

..
In rally phase, Sappers, Regimental HQ and Sentinels fail to rally, but Mole Mortars return to fight.


(after turn 2/start of turn 3)






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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:51 pm 
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TURN 3
Still nothing in reserve. Initiative: Demiurg (oh yeah)


Iron Eagles advance to surround the Manticores and open fire. All Manticores are wiped out.



Shadowsword advances and opens fire at Goliath but misses! Bombards retain but fail to activate. SC tries to yell at them but is still not very convincing while in retreat and thus Bombards still hold. They shoot Sappers a bit but cause no casualties.

Goliaths open fire at Baneblades. Shells rain down and one pierce single Baneblade, its ammo pack and BOOM it explodes! Baneblades are routed and situation looks griom for IG. Sentinels have to march to secure center objective.



Mole Mortars and Thudd Guns open fire at Sentinels but score only one hit which is saved.

Thunderbolts come down at Iron Eagles. AA fire misses them and they score 2 hits which are not saved and down goes 2 Gyrocopters and they are routed - blitz lost! Rough Rider commissar retains and makes a desperate attack against Trikes but is melted to heap of metal and bones.

IG has no activations left. Trikes march to Blitz. Overlord holds but still shoots at Sentinels, detsroying one and routing them. Heartguard Cavalry advances to center objective.

Final results:
Demiurg 3  (bts, blitz, take&hold) vs Imperial Guard 1 (bts)


(final positions. IG blitz is out of picture on left, surrounded by Demiurg trikes)






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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:08 pm 
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AFTERTHOUGHTS:

The units of the battle: IG Shadowsword and Thunderbolts.

Overlord is odd. As we have rules for "Support Craft", I would definately make it one - a floating balloon on the sky, not something that pops up behind the cover and then falls back. And make flak guns so that they can also shoot down, i.e. like '3x Autocannon: AP5+/AT6+/AA5+'. And move to non-War Engine section so that we would see them more often.

Pilum car feels no-brainer like Deathstrike for IG. Okay, it might not be that good if enemy does not have LR (Leman Russ or land Raider) ...

Next time when I play Demiurg I will test the tunnellers out. And stop doing crazy assaults :]


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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Overlord is odd. As we have rules for "Support Craft", I would definately make it one - a floating balloon on the sky, not something that pops up behind the cover and then falls back. And make flak guns so that they can also shoot down, i.e. like '3x Autocannon: AP5+/AT6+/AA5+'. And move to non-War Engine section so that we would see them more often.


If memory serves Support Craft is a rule from another experimental list. I don't see the need to adopt it, the Overlord is so tough, why would it need to hide? It's role is to support in assault and provide some air cover. Hena, any thought based on your other games involving Demiurg?

As for Flak, all of the units with Flak in the Demiurg List cannot shoot at anything else. That was by design. They have the best Flak coverage in the game, but it comes a price...limited utility.

If the Overlord, the Iron Eagle and the Thunderfire were allowed to shoot at units with their Flak they would cost a lot more...I think the way they work now is in the lists favor and gives it a distinct feel.

As for moving the Overlords off the SHVY portion of the list...I don't know...I dislike allowing SHVY units above the 1/3 limit. Maybe we could work out a alternate lists as per your AMTL idea in the other thread we have running.

Both the Goliaths and the Overlords were bounced back and forth in early playtests...letting them out of the limit led to very gross uneven battles that Moscovian cursed me for subjecting him too.

in my experience too many SHVY=no fun...

the bat rep read very well and seemed like a pretty entertaining game.  thanks for the write up.

ep

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Yellow vs grey, no contest.

Epilgrim - the support craft rule is you can see everything and everything can see you. No hiding.

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:29 pm 
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so basically Support Craft are skimmers that are always popped up?

sounds fine for the Overlord. I never hide mine, I never thought to, so in my mind this changes nothing regarding their role or cost. Any opinions?

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:06 am 
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Cool, thanks for the report! :)  Epilgrim are you the one who made the Demiurg list?

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:42 am 
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(epilgrim @ Dec. 23 2007,00:29)
QUOTE
so basically Support Craft are skimmers that are always popped up?

sounds fine for the Overlord. I never hide mine, I never thought to, so in my mind this changes nothing regarding their role or cost. Any opinions?

Yes, support craft is always popped-up skimmer. Or actually it is even higher, as high as planes, i.e. sees behind everything.
It is only used in other experimental list, Tau, but as the rule found itself at least in handbook 2008 section 2, then it would fit Overlord as a fist into an eye... (Finnish proverb, "fits like a glove" in English)

However, about the hiding: have you faced Shadowswords with Overlord? Very good reason to hide... :] So, IMO, support craft instead of skimmer would make OL a bit weaker - yes it would see behind everything but it would not survive against IG or Orks.

In their current form I like to compare them to gyros - gyrocopters are more shooty and move much faster (veeery important in epic) but more fragile. Most of the time I would take copters. Now that Overlords also reduce allowance for SH assets ...

Just my opinion, of course. Will keep on playing...


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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:06 pm 
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It is used on the Dark Eldar too and my guess is it will be seen on other variant lists soon.  Support Craft is perfect for the Overlord.

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:26 pm 
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Epilgrim are you the one who made the Demiurg list?


Yes, much to the dismay of GW historians and the BFG community, that list is mine.  :confuse:  However, I blame Moscovian.  :p  He got tired of my yammering about my extinct short stuff and dared me to start writing them into EA.  :devil:  After the blame is firmly established, everything else is mine.  :D

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 Post subject: [batrep] IG vs Demiurg 3000 pts
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:48 pm 
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However, about the hiding: have you faced Shadowswords with Overlord? Very good reason to hide... :] So, IMO, support craft instead of skimmer would make OL a bit weaker - yes it would see behind everything but it would not survive against IG or Orks.


I usually have something like a Cyclops or a Colossus holding court on the battlefield, keeping the enemy's heads down (or tail firmly between legs  :angry: ), so as I said earlier it never occurred to me to hug the terrain. Ignorant brute force tactics. I have no problem with the Support Craft rule. the stats and the points would remain the same, with this new vulnerability I may consider moving them from the SHVY assets.

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