Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:28 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11143
Location: Canton, CT, USA

(Hena @ Jan. 31 2008,15:09)
QUOTE
I would say that LOS is not required for making hits as they can come from multiple pods. However that is pure guessing :).

That would be my guess also, because the pods aren't actually aiming at anything, but rather automatically firing munitions in a 360 degree arc.

The Eldar's experience with a drop army is similar to my experience versus Phase III Tyranids.




_________________
"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:32 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Because the DropPod model is a marker for where the unit lands and itis also the point from which the shooting comes the LOS should be from the DropPod marker.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Ginger
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
From rules questions on the SG boards, the Drop Pod / Deathwind attack occurs after the Pods have landed, so the do require LOS. Secondly, though you are correct that it actually represents dozens of pods arriving, the rule design was reduced to a single model for expediency / practicality. So the radius of the attack is centred on the Pod.

As for the sequence, after the spaceship attack(s), I believe you should fully process each Planetfalling formation in turn before you consider the next one. The reason here is that it is entirely possible that one formation can end up landing on top of its friends and horribly mixed up.

Finally regarding the battle, Eldar are particularly susceptible to planetfalling assaults because of their relatively weak armour and smaller formation sizes. If you can double guess where your opponent will be deployed, three or four such Pod attacks followed up by some Tacticals and/or Terminators will nearly always have this sort of effect, and rightly so - you have just landed between 30% - 50% of your army on his doorstep.

The great weakness of this strategy in my experience is that once the dust has settled, the oponent usually then has the rest of his army poised to wipe out your unsupported troops. But Eldar typically keep quite a large part off table, which means that you have less comeback, and greater chances of stopping them arriving altogether. Against other armies - especially "all Fearless" armies ( :p ) this strategy is much more risky. However, it does become both more potent and less risky the later you can leave it. I have tended to find that the best timing is actually early in turn 2 when I can postion the two halves of my army to concentrate on one part of his, which is the exact opposite of 1st activation on turn 1, where he can concentrate most of his army on less than half of mine.

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Charad
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:30 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Finland
Also that rpr get to choose corner deployment make that dropping so much more effective. Chaos can strike so much harder when dropping than marines ever could. Those possessed are so nasty, 2x3+ CC first strike attacks each and don't forget the daemon princess... Also chaos possess best space crafts in the game.
And always it is about luck, rpr saved almost everything (except few macro hits) and hitted with great accuracy.

Quick game... :)

_________________
Rats Keep Running...

Dark Eldar Dracon
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:06 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 4893
Location: North Yorkshire
Brutal Game. As I said on the AMTL battle report, I prefer the clustered approach which gives an all or nothing response to the OB.

Am I the only one who does not like possessed, I would be quite happy to see them dropped completely from Chaos lists. I would especially say this for EC as they are, in my eyes, a predominantly FF army.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
rpr
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:28 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:32 pm
Posts: 516

(Tiny-Tim @ Feb. 01 2008,23:06)
QUOTE
Am I the only one who does not like possessed, I would be quite happy to see them dropped completely from Chaos lists. I would especially say this for EC as they are, in my eyes, a predominantly FF army.

Hey, they were a pain to convert! :]
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Great report, thanks.

Actually, I was thinking of dropping the possessed too (Sorry rpr!), or rather, replacing them with more standard raptor-type jump troops as a new formation. Start with the Raptor profile with Fearless...

What do you think (rpr, you could use your converted possessed as they new jump troops)?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:15 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

(rpr @ Jan. 31 2008,20:00)
QUOTE

(Chroma @ Jan. 31 2008,21:49)
QUOTE
I know it would've eaten up some activations, but I'm really surprised the Ulthwe player didn't use the triple activation advantage to get as many formations out of their deployment zone as possible... since it's highly likely that's there the drops are going to land!

We discussed about this but it would have meant that half the Eldar ground force would been located to middle of the board with no real action this turn. So, he decided to risk it.

The corner deployment of course helped Chaos here, as less space for the Eldar deployment, easier to hit with that 15cm repositioning of drops.

I really don't think there was a choice.

The Eldar wouldn't have to move to the middle of the board.  They could as easily have rushed to one of the flanking corners.  You lose a couple formations but then the majority of the EC are infantry without transport and you are Eldar.

With the deployment as it was, no changes, Eldar could have doubled the right flank towards the Questor and quite possibly done some real damage to it.  The left flank is left to die horribly to the drop, then the Eldar aircraft/air assault hit the EC units on the ground.


Overall, though, I think the best option would have been a completely different deployment strategy.  Cluster like Tiny Tim said, and teleport in Swooping Hawks to force the pods far away with their ZoC.  Even with 5cm coherency on the teleport for the Hawks, you could create a 20cm "dead zone" between the Eldar army and the most likely drop zone.  It would have sacrificed the Hawks, but the entire EC army would have been dead in the water (infantry, no transport, possibly not even in assault range), right in front of the rest of an unactivated Eldar army.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:17 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

(Ginger @ Jan. 31 2008,21:14)
QUOTE
From rules questions on the SG boards, the Drop Pod / Deathwind attack occurs after the Pods have landed, so the do require LOS.

I don't remember that discussion.  It's definitely not in the FAQs.

I would have argued that there is no LoS requirement.  It simply states "all enemy units" in range - no references to LoS.

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(nealhunt @ Feb. 04 2008,19:17)
QUOTE
I would have argued that there is no LoS requirement. ?It simply states "all enemy units" in range - no references to LoS.

Here's where I earn my "rules lawyer" tag... though this is more limiting things than going over the top.

According to 1.9 Shooting:

Range: In order to shoot, a unit must be in range of a unit to which it has a line of fire in the target formation.

Line Of Fire: The line of fire is a straight line drawn from the shooting unit to one unit in the target formation. The line of fire is blocked by terrain features such as buildings, hills, woods, etc. Weapons higher up can often see over any terrain that is lower down. Buildings, rubble, woods, fortifications and the like don?t block the line of fire to or from units that are in the terrain itself unless the line or fire passes through more than 10cms of the terrain feature (ie, you can shoot 10cms ?into? a terrain feature, but the line of fire is still blocked to units on the other side). The only units that can block the line of fire are war engines (see 3.0). Other units do not block the line of fire for friend or foe.

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
nealhunt
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:54 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
Well, the drop pod isn't actually a unit...

_________________
Neal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

(nealhunt @ Feb. 04 2008,19:54)
QUOTE
Well, the drop pod isn't actually a unit...

The ease/tragedy of abstraction...   :D

Do roll to hit units on the other side of building/terrain features that are within 15cm of a drop pod landing point?  We've never allowed that, if there's fully intervening terrain, they're protected by its shadow...

So, *another* point were everyone thinks they're doing it the right way... but they're doing it differently!   :O

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
rpr
 Post subject: 3k EC 2.1 vs Ulthwe
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:59 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:32 pm
Posts: 516

(Lord Inquisitor @ Feb. 04 2008,19:17)
QUOTE
Actually, I was thinking of dropping the possessed too (Sorry rpr!), or rather, replacing them with more standard raptor-type jump troops as a new formation. Start with the Raptor profile with Fearless...

What do you think (rpr, you could use your converted possessed as they new jump troops)?

Oh no not my precious Possessed! :?[
I have sacrificed like dozen (new) daemonettes to them and cut off several arms and created tentacles and.... :[[[[

It was especially PITA of making sure that they have absolutely no ranged weapons at all =]

Of those jump pack units: well there is already bikes, and I at least have difficulties to find room even for that single formation without ranged weapons at all...

(well I guess I could use those possessed in random stands of cultist marines, LatD etc.)
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net