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Gargant Big Mob list development

 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Thanks! Looks great!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Most of you probably know, but Beefcake4000 published the results of the cancon2017, and i think it is better if we have them more at hand, given there is three guys that took this list.

Image

Took from viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32138 which has a report of a game against Gargants too.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:06 pm 
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I'm sure you'll have at least 2 of the 3 guys who ran the Gargant list come along and post some thoughts soon.

Also the Gargant list at the bottom of the table should be ignored for power level as it was run by a brand new player who was playing his 2nd through 6th games of epic ever during the tournament with that list


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Oh great! Looking forward to it!

So 7th and 15th place out of 24 lists? Thats 1 in the upper 8 and 8 in the middle 8, both in the lower parts of thoose segments...

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:13 am 
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I'm the player who placed 6th (although it shows 7th for some reason).
I'll be back this weekend with my wrap up just busy with work at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:14 am 
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I'm the player who placed 6th (although it shows 7th for some reason).
I'll be back this weekend with my wrap up just busy with work at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Played a game against Tiny-Tim this evening.

He ended a 6 game win streak with my IG with a Great Gargant, Gargant, 3x Supa Stompas list.

3-1 on turn 3.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:05 am 
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Thanks! Any thoughts on the game?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:31 am 
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This game broadly reinforced my prior thoughts on weapons and upgrade costs (take the cheap weapons for extra activations and to spare points to put cheap extra powerfields on everything).

Supa stompas passed every test to rally or drop BM's required of them I think. Not heavily stress tested here as there were only a few rally rolls for them.

Our new understanding of the intent of the 'push' rule (only one fire even if doubling or marching) has resulted in a (local) power upgrade to a list that I at least already considered strong. I still like the Push rule in concept.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:58 am 
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G'day team.

I finally got the chance to sit down and bang out my wrap up from CanCon 2017.
I finished 6/7th overall for the weekend with my full write up at my blog.
http://fuddshobby.blogspot.com.au/2017/ ... n-won.html

My important points I want to share after the weekend as far as development is concerned...

1. Lets have a serious look at Limiting Great Gargants a 1 per 2,000pt option. or something along the lines that limits you to only having 1 per 3k tournament standard force. I could certainly see the frustration a lot of my opponents were having especially with my consistently high rolls for power fields adding to it, hopefully aiding my next point.

2. Give me a reason to take stompas I was excited to see the in the list but they're a sub par option that no one is going to run competitively in their current state. formations of 3 are broken far to easily. It wouldn't hurt to explore a restructure of how they are run within the gargant big mob list. Eg. your normal formation moving to 4 strong. just a suggestion for testing, 225pts for 4 strong, Thoughts?

3. I see no reason for the Supa Stompa to be at the points its at. 275 was fine and I don't see a problem with it returning to this.

4. The critical system didn't really happen that often and to be honest I didn't use the rule for "push it harder" very often at all so I can't further comment on the concerns surrounding that.

Let me know if you have anything else you'd like me to comment on.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:19 pm 
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First, thanks alot for taking the time of doing the writeup and sharing your views! It helps alot!

Fudd wrote:
1. Lets have a serious look at Limiting Great Gargants a 1 per 2,000pt option. or something along the lines that limits you to only having 1 per 3k tournament standard force. I could certainly see the frustration a lot of my opponents were having especially with my consistently high rolls for power fields adding to it, hopefully aiding my next point.


Yes, this has been a concern of mine too. I haven't tried a dual Great Gargant build recently but on paper it looks very hard to deal with and kinda broken. Especially if the 2 GG walks close together and supports ecah other assaults... I also think a certain limit should be introduced. I still think you should be able to take a1 Mega gargant AND 1 Great Gargant per 3000p. They swallow so much points together that it should cause alot of problems for the list to get enough activations to be competetive.

Fudd wrote:
2. Give me a reason to take stompas I was excited to see the in the list but they're a sub par option that no one is going to run competitively in their current state. formations of 3 are broken far to easily. It wouldn't hurt to explore a restructure of how they are run within the gargant big mob list. Eg. your normal formation moving to 4 strong. just a suggestion for testing, 225pts for 4 strong, Thoughts?


Yes, this have been talked about before. Stompas are hard to justify in any build with this list. I actually like your suggestion alot.

Fudd wrote:
3. I see no reason for the Supa Stompa to be at the points its at. 275 was fine and I don't see a problem with it returning to this.


Thats the opposite on what I think after using a 3 Supa-Stompas in a list at a recent tournament. IMO they're very good for their points with their barrage giving all units 2BM:s minimum and wrecking havoc on anything without RA due to the MW in the barrage.
I*m gonna try my build against some more seasoned players (by Swedish Epic community standard) and see if I get the same results.

Lots of good info here, thanks alot again!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:44 pm 
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So alot of good info has come out of people (including myself) bringing this list to tournaments recently!

Heres my thoughts on the future changes/fixes to the list. They're only in the theoretical stage so don't get all worked up about them. We'll discuss them all first before I decide to implement them or not. Also, if several ideas are listed for a unit it doesn't mean that all would be used. It could be one or the other.

1. Supa Stompas: My opinion of theese are that they are very good for their points and a almost auto-include option in the list. Theese following changes are being pondered on:

A) Lowering the "mob rule" bonus for them to +1 (instead of +2 as it stands right now).
B) Taking away the "Kustom bitz" option for them.

2. Mega Gargants/Great Gargants: Theese are very hard for the opponent to take down or deal with. The massive amount of DC they have + the potential of up to 12 shields makes them one of the toughest units in the game.
The following things might be changed:

A) Limiting the GG (and Mega Gargants) to 1 each for every 3000p.
B) Taking awaqy 1 "kustom bits" slot.

3. Stompas: A unit that doesn't really get used. They don't really serve a role in the list as they are costed right now. This ciould be changed:

A) Increasing the amount of stompas to 4/8/12 for the cost of 225/375/525.

4. "Kustom Bitz": A fun addition to the list that gives the palyers an opportunity to deigns some flavourfull builds. But some combinations are maybe to good? Some ideas:

A) Only allowing for 1 slot of Kustom Bits for Gargants.
B) Letting the second slot replace a weapon slot.

5. "Push em harder ladz": A very much needed rule to a slow list. But maybe it's a tad to good as it works right now? with gargants making it to the enemt blitz without to much trouble in several games. This could be done:

A) Changing the rule so the Gargant would get 1 fire for every move (e.g 1 for an advance/engage/marshall, 2 for a double and 3 for a march) instead of 1 for every order as it works right now.

Theese are the things I'm thinking about right now. I feel most strongly about 1A, 2A, 3A and 5A right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:07 pm 
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My thoughts, which are intended in a spirit of cooperation.

1 - Agreed on A.

2 - Other Titan lists don't seem to need this top-end limit; This problem implies (some variants of) top-end units are underpriced, IMO.

3 - They've always been too expensive IMO (They're not worth it without super stompa in the generic Orks list). 225 for 4 may be a good start. Maybe 200 for 4 after testing.

4 - Suggestion - 25pts is IMO too cheap as it allows spamming of upgrades for every WE. Rather than reducing availability, make them a touch better, but 50pts. Would inhibit upgrade spam.

5 - Agreed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:15 am 
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Fudd, Kyussinchains, Tiny-Tim and other playing aginst/with the list, any thoughts on theese propsed changes?

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:50 am 
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From the list:

1A

2 - not really a fan of either option tbh.... a gargant list should be able to take the biggest gargants possible after all... I've only ever taken a single great gargant but I only own the one model, maybe as E&C says, a slight price bump would be a better option?

3A - although I'll be honest, I'd always take the kanz mob in preference for cheap activation count boosters, regardless of how cheap the stompas were

4 - I'd say the better upgrades could go to 50pts?

5 - agreed

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