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Gargant Big Mob list development

 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Mordoten. It's been years since I last played this list. But I love the simple change you made of adding Stompa Mob as a choice in this list. Thank you - that was something I had long argued for. Allows you to field variety of walkers from big to small, nicely keeping theme. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Thanks! Yes, i also like the idea of round, fat walkers of all sizes on board!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:01 am 
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Truth to be told, on the idea i was commenting yesterday about Dreadnoughts, i would like to take it further and include the Stompas on the choice, but i cannot see a good way of doing it. So far my best suggestion would be:
Armored Mob 200 350 500 Choose between 3 stompas, 5 Dreads and 1 Killa Kan, and 8 Killa Kans

Positive side:
- Even more flexible and tactical on the list as the BIG and UGE reduced costs can be used to make more combinations.
- Combination of units on the same formation is very typical of Orks.
- The extra flexibility would help on making the Stompas slightly better.
- We free one place on the support part of the list so: the list is more compact, and it makes it looks like the focus on the list is more on the core than it already is by reducing the number of options on support.
- It makes the list a bit less redundant, as Supa-Stompa, Stompa and Killa Kan Mobs looked quite similar as they have almost the same options, even though they are quite different.
- The same cost as now for Killa Kans when taking the current UGE Killa Kan Mob (400) compared with this BIG (350+25+25) and 18 guys each.

Negative side:
- 200 points compared with 150 as the minimum points for a formation is a big issue and will make the negative points i wrote for the 175 option even worse.
- The part about 5 Dreads and 1 Killa is a bit lame and quite forced.

This latter option is bad as the first downside is too big, but i would like to have a talk about the 175 points option with just Killa Kans and Dreadnoughts, and Stompas kept aside on their own as they are now , on about how you guys see it.

mordoten wrote:
Thank you for a awesome report! Truly a pleasure to read!
I do think the AA "nerf" was good as 45cm MW AA is way too powerfull in a game where air assaults are a important snd popular tactic. Especially when head on assaults on the Gargants on the ground will be very hard to win.


Yeah, that was definitely a good choice. I agree and support it.

On about the reason, JumpingJehovah, i think that its probably because Ferals have it because they have no aircraft, but on this list ground AA that is hardly breakable even if slow combined with Fightas make it maybe the best Ork list at AA, but struggling with Speed Freks, so there is no problem of it being overwhelming or underwhelming. The AA is on a good spot now. :)

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Last edited by Abetillo on Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Hmmm.... inreresting idea about a mixed stompy formation. At first glance it looks a little bit cluncky and hard to price right. But I'll take it into consideration.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:08 pm 
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@mordoten: I know you're quite attached to the current version of the Mob Rule for the list (although it sounds like you've also been entertaining dropping Supa Stompas to +1 rather than +2) but here's another possible version that would have about the same effect while feeling a little less arbitrary (and more Orky!)

"All WE Walkers in the list count double their DC for the purposes of 'Mob Rule'. In addition, any formation may add the current DC (not doubled!) of nearby Gargants within LoS to their formation size for the purposes of 'Mob Rule': 5cm for Gargants, 15cm for Greater Gargants, and 30cm for Mega Gargants. In order to 'lend' DC in this manner, a Gargant must be unbroken and must not have rallied this turn."

So we'd start the game with Supa-Stompas getting +1 and all Gargant types having +2 but eventually needing to use the other big walkers as rallying points as their DC get whittled down. It'd also help make mobs of normal Stompas (or Abetillo's mixed walker mobs if those get implemented) more useful, as they could also use the bigger Orks as rallying beacons. Obviously the Head of Gork upgrade would have to go, as it's basically rolled up into this. Supa-Stompas would probably be a bit worse here than if they got a straight +1 because they only need to go down by a couple of DC to need babysitting Gargants. Back down to 275 would probably balance that out though.


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:49 am 
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NoisyAssassin wrote:
"All WE Walkers in the list count double their DC for the purposes of 'Mob Rule'. In addition, any formation may add the current DC (not doubled!) of nearby Gargants within LoS to their formation size for the purposes of 'Mob Rule': 5cm for Gargants, 15cm for Greater Gargants, and 30cm for Mega Gargants. In order to 'lend' DC in this manner, a Gargant must be unbroken and must not have rallied this turn."


To be frank, I don't like the micromanaging and gamesmanship that goes into that solution and I don't think it worth the constant book keeping and fiddling with DC. Chipping one DC here or there to kill formations bonuses just doesn't sound fun, it's "gamey" and it isn't fluffy either. You don't stop Orks by merely hurting them (that makes 'em mad), you have to crush the leader utterly!


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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:16 am 
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Sorry for the late reply, worked 36 hours this weekend.

I agree with DK on the micromanaging comment. Seems like this just adds to the book keeping and makes the game go slower. You already have to remember how many shields and DC each Gargant have left and also how many fires each titan have. I don't think we need another mechanic that needs to be remembered and counted also to be honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Great news!

This weekend i will play in a tournament using the gargant list. 3 battle reports will be produced from that event! :-)

Also, apparantly 3 players are going to use the list in the Oz tournament CanCon! Hopefully all or some of them can do some write ups of the performance of the list!

This is great. Now we canget some good data on how the list does in tournaments!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:18 am 
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Hi mate, I'll be taking Gargants to CanCon 2017 here in Australia. Looking forward to giving you plenty of feedback to assist with the development of this list.


GREAT GARGANT [800]
2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Mega Lobba, Mekboy Big Boss

GREAT GARGANT [775]
2 Soopa Zzap Gun, Gatling Kannon

GARGANT [650]
2 Soopagun, Grot Guided Missile


SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

LOOTA WARBAND (NORMAL) [150]
6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, Big Gunz

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [150]
3 Fighta-Bommers

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Hey Fudd!

Thats great news! That list is really interesting and I look forward to hearing from you after the tourney.
Good luck and happy Stomping!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Heres the list I'm using at the Tournament in Gothenburg, Sweden:

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Gargant Bigmob (3.3.1 - Developmental)
==================================================

GREAT GARGANT [800]
Mekboy Big Boss, (Kustom) Flakka Dakka, (Kustom) Power Fields, 2 Gatling Kannon, Supa Skorcha

GARGANT [675]
(Kustom) Flakka Dakka, (Kustom) Power Fields, Grot Guided Missile, Ripper Fist, Supa Skorcha

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

SUPA STOMPA [325]
3 Soopagun, (Kustom) Extra Armour Bitz

KILLA KANZ MOB (NORMAL) [150]
6 Killa Kan

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [200]
4 Fighta-Bommers

FIGHTA-BOMMERS [200]
4 Fighta-Bommers

I wanted to test alot of Supa-Stompas since they have been the subject for some debate in this thread. Are they to good for their points with the +2 mob rule or not?

The idea is to put my 2 objectives 30cm apart on the mid line, preferably with some area terrain like ruins or woods in between them.
The Gargant will hang out by the blitz and protect that. It will try to take out some of the opponents WE:s with it's grot guided missiles.
The Great gargant will act as a spearhead and park itself between the 2 T&H objectives on the midline. The supa stompas will follow behind the GG using it for LoF blocking and either start engaging in turn 2 (using the great gargant as support as much as possible) or trying to sustain with their MW barrages on smaller units.
Planes will do what they always do.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Take lots of pictures. Looking forward to reading and seeing how you make out!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:44 am 
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Thanks guys,
Image
More pics :
http://fuddshobby.blogspot.com.au/2017/ ... to-go.html

I really like that list you're taking to the Tournament in Gothenburg mate. very interesting indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Ok guys, on my way home from the tournament in Gothenburg now. I had 3 matches with 3 wins giving me the 1st place in the tournament.
Theres definitly (can't spell that word correct, to much wine has been consumed) some things in this list that we need to discuss. I did 3 battle reports which will be put up on the forum in the next few days. REALLY interested in how the 3 Gargant players fared at CanCon!

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 Post subject: Re: Gargant Big Mob list development
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:58 pm 
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I got a game in on thursday night, new venue and we were under much more time pressure than usual so I didn't get many photos, facing Steve54 and his EUK Dark Angels

I took

Great Gargant - mega lobba, gatling kannon, ripper fist, mekboy bigboss, powerfields
Gargant - 2x gatling kannon, ripper fist, powerfields
Gargant - 2x gatlink kannon, ripper fist, powerfields
supa stompa - 2x soopagun, mega choppa, powefields
supa stompa - 2x soopagun, mega choppa, powerfields
killa kanz
killa kanz
Fighta Bombas

Steve took

Devs - hunter + las razorback
Devs
Scouts
Scouts
Deathwing - chaplain
predator annihilators - hunter
Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk
Landing Craft
Strike Cruiser
Nephilims
Nephilims

Turn 1

Orks win strategy roll, fightas CAP, strike cruiser hits one set of kanz, placing blast markers, deathwind lands between kanz and supa stompa, devs retain and sustain on stompa, stripping shields and doing a point of damage, stompa engages devs, breaks them for no damage, nephilims both hit second supa stompa and strip all shields, goff gargant doubles forward, preds land and shoot goff gargant doing a point or two of damage, great gargant pushes 'arder and engages preds and LC, wipes preds out and breaks LC for a few shields, catches fire, scouts maneuvre around, devs move forward to snipe at stompa, Terminators engage goff gargant and intermingle stompa and great gargant, they lose and are wiped out

end phase, broken devs rally, kanz rally, LC rallies and flies off, great gargant gets more fires and takes 2 damage

Turn 2

Dark Angels avoid and snipe stuff, OGBM try to catch the marines, but fail mostly

Turn 3

See turn 2, Time runs out, DA have blitz, OGBM have BTS, called it as a draw, probably winning draw to OGBM based on points

Thoughts
This game was a little bit silly really, unlike last time I hopped from cover to cover with the gargants, Steve went for the 10% chance of breaking 3 gargants which cost him his BTS, fun game, but with more time we probably would have had a much different result!

few pics

Image

Image

Image

Image

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