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Death Guard v0.3

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:35 pm 
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On that subject, how are you all using Plague Zombie Infestations?

I use them almost solely as blockers, usually bringing them in on turn 1 and spreading them across the front of whatever part of the enemy force I want to prevent from moving, using their ZoC to force the opponent to spend activations Engaging or shooting the Zombies. The almost inevitable fallback moves then being used to reposition the remnants across a new approach or to force vehicles into terrain to get round them.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:49 pm 
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i only used them once actually as i like to spend my points on more actual "damage dealing" units/upgrades normally. but when i did i tried to use them the same way as you do. they even managed to wipe out a squad of sentinels (by pure luck admittedley) but drew the sustained fire of a infantery comp which almost cleared them from the table, leaving only 1 or 2 if i remember correctly. they remains where ignored.
i can't think of any other use as to hinder advance or being a pest around the opponents blitz.
maybe one could use them for an combined assault with terminators in order to boost the numbers but frankly i don't see much sense in that..


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:31 pm 
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One formation is pretty much a staple in my EpicUK lists, although I've not used them much with NetEA due to knowing how they work.

Another use is waiting a turn or two and then bringing them on behind a formation that you want to get crossfire on. I've not had much success with that myself, largely due to being too impatient to keep them off-board.

Also, when using them as blockers it's sometimes worth assaulting weak isolated formations if your opponent has left anything unsupported, but the other prime use of an activation is to put them in Overwatch - you're forcing your opponent to activate another formation and the Zombies get to count as being in cover if shot at.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:42 pm 
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IJW Wartrader wrote:
Also, when using them as blockers it's sometimes worth assaulting weak isolated formations if your opponent has left anything unsupported, but the other prime use of an activation is to put them in Overwatch - you're forcing your opponent to activate another formation and the Zombies get to count as being in cover if shot at.


ahh.. thats sneaky.. :)

i didn't care enough for them so i assaulted straight away and managed cut one of his activations permanently.
i haven't thought about using them as crossfirers. even though i don't really like the idea of a crossfire component that hasn't even a ff value. but yeah might work. again.. sneaky :)

but as i sad my expeirence with zombies is limited. my buildup normally is quite dreadnought/desecrator heavy. at least in a proportion where all infantery can get to hit modifiers from av cover. so i don't have that much points to spare and still be able to get at least 8-9 activations. but i will give them a go again. hopefully weekend maybe already vs steel legion.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:56 pm 
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Hmm, that's an interesting list approach, I'll have to try that at some point. But you're right about it not leaving many points to spare.

I started looking at other ways of activating the Zombies at least once before they get broken after a game where they got beaten up by the Deathstrike formation that they'd engaged... :{[]

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:57 pm 
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stretch them in a line, or put rings around dangerous war engines to prevent them moving

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:19 pm 
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A case in point being a game against Alansa's AMTL last year, where an Infestation managed to tie up his Warlord Titan behind tall buildings for the first turn. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:09 pm 
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I'll probably give this a try for the next test game:

Towering Transports, 2990 POINTS
Death Guard (NetEA V0.3.1)
==================================================

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [700]
Plague Tower (transport), 3 Chaos Spawn, Nurgle Sorcerer, 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [650]
7 Plague Marines, Plague Tower (transport), Nurgle Sorcerer, 2 Chaos Spawn

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [415]
4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs, Lord of Pestilence (Supreme Commander), 4 Death Guard Rhino

PLAGUE ZOMBIE INFESTATION [175]
3+2D6 Plague Zombies

ARMOURED ASSAULT COMPANY [325]
6 Death Guard Vindicators, Plague Hulk

WALKER HORDE [275]
4 Death Guard Desecrator

PLAGUE REAPERS [200]
Plaguereaper

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:59 pm 
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Had a game last friday using the list I posted the other day against Tiny-Tim's ork horde. The game went heavily in my favour with T-T's first air assault bouncing off my vindicators and then followed in that vain. However after some bad rallies T-T held it to a turn four victory on points. I like the addition of grave warden, the one thing I don't really take in epicuk DG is terminators because of their cost and vulnerability but having the grave warden makes them worth taking. The vindicators are a good cheap formation and the invulnerable save is a bit nifty, although I didn't make one the whole game with anything. I noticed all the vehicles have an invulnerable save I'm assuming that you are balancing this with the army not being able to march. Also the spaceship is a bit cheap or a bit good you effectively have a free formation of zombies, having that extra formation on the table always helps even though its can't claim objectives. I didn't use the nurglings as plaguebearers (and forgot about beasts doh) were a better option at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:43 am 
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I can't claim credit for the vehicle change, that was Steve54's change! Roughly speaking, all the 'generic' Chaos AVs gained Invulnerable Saves in return for losing 5cm speed.

The spacecraft definitely needs more testing.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:23 pm 
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Batrep 2 is up, against EpicUK Dark Angels: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31050

The two Plague Tower Retinues lost 11 of their 12 DC - two of that from failed Dangerous Terrain, but balanced by a complete lack of crits. As formations they were incredibly tough, but at 700pt and 650pt they should be.

Concerns were raised about Blight Drone costs (played with Initiative 2+) compared to Land Speeder Typhoons - being AV rather than LV and having better but slightly shorter range guns and being Fearless was seen as an issue, but that's also part of a long-standing discussion about whether ATSKNF is overcosted in the various Marine lists.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:41 am 
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Hi Ian. Another great batrep. Those images look great! It's also good to see some commentary on positioning, what units are trying to achieve, where objectives are etc.

IJW Wartrader wrote:
Concerns were raised about Blight Drone costs (played with Initiative 2+) compared to Land Speeder Typhoons - being AV rather than LV and having better but slightly shorter range guns and being Fearless was seen as an issue, but that's also part of a long-standing discussion about whether ATSKNF is overcosted in the various Marine lists.


My observations are more theoretical than practical but in a straight up comparison it may appear that way. But blight drones are limited in other ways. You can't spam them, as they are elite. They are one per retinue. Retinues, and most formations in plague marine lists, are fairly expensive, and most loyal marines don't have these limitations.
Blight Drones also compete with terminators for the elites slot.
Realistically you're unlikely to put more than two formations in a 3000 point list and still take some of the other must haves, with one formation probably being more likely.

So personally I think they are balanced in this list, as they have the retinue tax and compete for the elites slot. Others' results may vary!
Keep up the great work here!

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:37 pm 
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I can't see taking more than two formations at 3k myself, but this is pretty spammy if a bit short on ranged firepower:


Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Death Guard (NetEA V0.3.1)
==================================================

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [400]
Plague Lord, 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs, Desecrator

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [375]
Plague Lord, 7 Plague Marines, Desecrator

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [300]
Plague Lord, 7 Plague Marines

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [325]
Plague Lord, 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havocs

DEATH GUARD RETINUE [350]
7 Plague Marines, Lord of Pestilence (Supreme Commander)

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:04 pm 
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After further discussion within the club, I'll try some games with six Blight Drones for 300pt, directly matching the Red Corsairs list.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.3
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:09 am 
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Sounds like a good idea. Consistency across different lists is nice if there is no real reason for the differences. Do the blight drones appear in any other lists?

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