Thanks
very much for the expanded explanations!
Plagueship - yes, that's been my justification of the formation as well, along with the Zombies starting clumped up instead of spread out to get in the way. I'll leave it at 4BP, 3+2d6 for now and see how playtests go.
Plaguereapers - 'almost never kill their points worth' is a sign that we think about the game very differently.
The Grand Tournament Scenario is almost purely an objective-based mission, so what matters to me is achieving those objectives. If my opponent is actively avoiding the area the Plaguereaper(s) are in, the formation has already done it's job, even if it never gets to fire or assault.
Fester Titan - I highly recommend them, my record so far for a single activation with a Plaguehound is wiping a broken eleven-strong Kult of Speed BTS at the GT last weekend, and that was with rolls only slightly above average - 5-6xAP3 Disrupt from the barrage and 4xAP2 Disrupt from the other gun resulted in eight hits and nine BMs. A Fester would only have had 3xAP2 Disrupt on the second gun, but with the ability to use it on AV.
Contagions - yes, Night Spinners are the obvious comparison, and I think Contagions do well in that comparison. The first big difference is formation size giving them a second template, and requiring more than a single casualty to break.I regard the speed difference as mostly irrelevant because both formations want to Sustain to get Indirect Fire - the only time I ever see Night Spinners move is when they break. Then add in Fearless and they can't be wiped just by being shot at.
For garrisoning Contagions, coming forwards off the Blitz gets the formation into position to fire into the enemy Deployment Zone if need be, without being dependant on where the opponent places objectives and without leaving them so exposed. Plus you can start them in Overwatch which can help dissuade over-aggressive teleporters or air assault into your lines, and this is also when the secondary gun really kicks in.
However, I think they should have a wider variety of upgrades beyond just the Plague Tower - in EpicUK they can take Contagions and Defilers (Desecrators in NetEA terms) which makes them a lot more self-contained as a formation. Looking back at Frogbear's list they could take Walkers there as well, so Walkers will go back in in 0.3.2. Contagions could also be added (for a potential 7 in the formation), but I'm wary of simply pulling stuff wholesale from the EpicUK list as this one is already mostly a super-set of it.
Terminators - note that moving Plague Towers to Elites was still up in the air and not a confirmed change! Currently I still have them as Support but with the upgrade using up a Support slot. So the Terminators aren't competing with Plague Towers, and neither are Blight Drones.
Going back to 40k for inspiration:
Deathshroud Terminators have whopping great Deathshroud Scythes and not much in the way of ranged weapons. Going from various attempts at Close Assault Terminators in Epic we could look at CC2+, FF-, CC EA+1 MW.
Grave Warden Terminators still have Powerfists but then have lots of short-range alchemical weapons rather than things like Reaper Autocannon. Tweaking the existing profile slightly we could look at CC4+, FF3+, FF EA+1 Ignore Cover, CC EA+1 MW, 1 x 15cm AP4+ Ignore Cover.
Drop the Invulnerable Save and we could
maybe justify starting them at 4 and a Lord for 350pt.
Please note that I think the Thousand Sons Terminators are too cheap, so 'a similar route' is going to be tricky...
Plague Hulks - this seems to be another fundamental disagreement about list construction and what makes for a useful formation. Four Plague Hulks by themselves doesn't have to be a viable formation, period, because they're a
single option out of three. You can take four Defilers. I can take four Desecrators. Matty_C can take three Desecrators and a Plague Hulk. You could take three Defilers and a Plague Hulk. A mix of Plague Hulks, Desecrators and Assault Dreadnoughts could be a Blitz guard, especially in Overwatch, while providing a decent-range AA bubble across your back lines.
Overall feedbackIs this list effective overall? From my EpicUK experience and from my NetEA games so far,
hell yes. This list outstrips the EpicUK one in almost every regard, and I have a 50% win rate with EpicUK DG, including the sub-optimal list I took to the GT.
Is it overly predictable? Depends. Players can predict that there's going to be Disrupt Barrages and tough slow-moving formations. Beyond that, not particularly. Big garrisoning formations is something
I frequently use, but
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31050 had three mounted Retinues and only a formation of Desecrators garrisoning. If your opponent is expecting big garrisons, then a couple of Contagion formations forcing them to spread out followed by Terminators and Blight Drones doing clipping assaults is going to be a nasty shock.
Is it fun to play? I've had a lot of fun using it, my opponents not so much. Looking back through the thread you've said repeatedly that you enjoyed using it.
Balancing factors include formations that are very hard to shift (especially when they auto-Marshal) and Disrupting any broken formations to death before they get a chance to rally. I find when I face higher activation lists they have an advantage in the early game but by the end-game I'm usually out-activating them because my formations are still going while many of theirs don't exist any more. DG formations that break in the late game will usually spread out across the routes to objectives and force the opponent to assault them, 'waste' an activation shooting them or try to detour round them if there's even a route through. Fearless is a huge part of the strength of the DG list - I've lost my BTS once in the last dozen or so games and that was due to making really bad decisions against Steve54's Ulthwe.
In summary, I fundamentally disagree with your evaluation of the power level of the list. If you think I'm wrong,
show me I'm wrong.
Give me a batrep. So far there have been two? batreps from outside my group across the whole of 0.2-0.3.1.