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Death Guard v0.2

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:04 am 
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Low activation count is just part of the challenge of the army. They should be tougher to kill though, so harder to degrade the activation number than with other armies. The Plagueship adds a free 3 extra activations too, which changes things.

Maybe the core Plague Marine formation could cost slightly less though - they're the same in the Epic-UK DG list but costed at 300.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 12:13 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
Low activation count is just part of the challenge of the army. They should be tougher to kill though, so harder to degrade the activation number than with other armies. The Plagueship adds a free 3 extra activations too, which changes things.


Should it, though? the way things are at the moment the Plagueship is almost mandatory, the cheap price is almost irresistible for four activations in an activation-starved force, where the next cheapest detachment is one activation for the same price

I don't particularly like the Plagueship as it is now, the last time I used my force was before there were any DG lists so I was using BL, and bombarding the table with Dreadclaws was A) an awesome sight, and B) a good way of closing the gap between forces

I think the DG aerospace assets need an overhaul to be honest, I can't see any reason to be denied the Devastation/Despoiler/Dreadclaw optons, the Plagueship could always be a further upgrade that adds the zombie-dropping rule to any bombardments made at the cost of losing Pin Point Attacks

That way we can have a nice cheap 150pt Devastation, a slightly more expensive Devastation Plagueship that doesnt generate as many zombies, a despoiler or a VERY expensive despoiler Plagueship that loses two PPAs but can generate three units of Zombies

It also eliminates the balance problem of having a 175 point choice that generates 4 activations, and we get a similar level of aerospace flexibility the other Cult lists have (Thousand Sons get 2 ships, WE get 1 + Upgrade, EC get 2, plus a Harbinger and Thunderhawk)

GlynG wrote:
Maybe the core Plague Marine formation could cost slightly less though - they're the same in the Epic-UK DG list but costed at 300.


That would be my preferred solution to the activation issue, I'm all for having a massive infantry force slogging across the table, but when a barebones core formation is using up more than 10% of my points in a 3K game I start to flinch


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:07 pm 
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Agree on a 25p drop on retinues.

I think the plagueship should only spawn one group of zombies (2d6+3 like the others), not 3.

There are several other lists with highly costed core formations: AMTL, Gargants, Knights, Minervans. I don't see it as a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:35 pm 
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I'm not sure armies with WEs and Tanks as their core formations are a fair comparison for where the price point / activation count should be


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Well, fearless 3+ armour troops are pretty close to tanks/WE:s in terms if survival ability....

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:42 pm 
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Apologies for the delay on this, suggested changes

Plague Marine retinue - drops 25pts to 300pts

Armoured Co- I agree that Vindicators need to be cheaper but I don't want a cheap spamming formation given the save+fearlessness of the core marines. Perhaps remove them as a core part of the armoured formation - change it to 0-4 Predators+Land Raiders 50/75 Upgrades LR, Vindicators, Predators, Walkers.

Plague Ship
- increase to 200pts

Then add to Upgrades
0-3 DG Vindicators for 35pts each

Upgrades section
Remove terminators as an upgrade, 7 fearless terminators are not fun to play against.

Stats
Plague Hulk - increase speed to 20cm

Contagion Engines - I think these should be 20cm move

Plague Ship
- drop to 4BP
- change to one zombie infestation of 3+ D6

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:31 pm 
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Armoured Co. - it's a shame to lose the ability to run an all-Vindicator formation, but there doesn't seem to be an easy way to drop their points without having a spammable activation, other than adding a new formation type. :(

EDIT - presumably you mean 4-7 vehicles for the formation, not 0-4.

How about borrowing the Iron Warriors 3.0 Armoured Assault Company wholesale? 250pt for six Nurgle Vindicators, available upgrades: Nurgle Vindicators. I'm a bit out of date on Death Guard background but from a gameplay point of view a formation of 'slow' tanks with nasty short-range guns feels fitting.


Contagion Engines - to stop them being able to garrison? Presumably they'd also need a name change to prevent confusion with the 15cm move version in other lists.


Plague Hulk - 20cm move sounds good. More than one would block garrisoning but they'd be able to keep up much better when used with Defilers or other faster units. Hmm, anyone else fancy the idea of being able to take Plague Hulks and Vindicators in a single formation? :)


Plague Ship - if that's 3+1d6 zombies then I'm not sure the price rise is needed with the BPs being halved as well. That said, I don't have that much experience using or facing spacecraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:12 pm 
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Don't change contagion engines! Being able to garrison them is what makes them usable, also they exist in other lists with a 15cm move.

Plagueship could have at least 6BP and 2d6+3 zombies if its going to cost 200. Not having MW barrage is a big downside. Why do such drastic change?

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Re contagion engines I meant should be 15cm as they are 20cm in the pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:30 pm 
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Ah, all becomes clear re the Contagion Engines!

Mordoten, I was thinking the same thing about the Plagueship but then spotted that if it's the full 2d6+3 then you're getting two large templates of Disrupt barrage for 'only' 25pt and more limited deployment.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:23 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Don't change contagion engines! Being able to garrison them is what makes them usable, also they exist in other lists with a 15cm move.


At 15cm they are nearly pointless as transports.

I might be wrong but don't the rules state:

6.1.5 Setup Spacecraft & Garrisons
•Formations where no more than one of the units has a move greater than 15cms, and where none of the units are war engines.

Still need a final say on the points for the Towers? 325 or 300 or something else?

mordoten wrote:
I think the plagueship should only spawn one group of zombies (2d6+3 like the others), not 3.


I really liked the idea of the plague ship Zombies per template. Yes its better than other lists but other lists have things that are better than this one. If its already being dropped to 4BP with no MW, this is already a massive nerf not to mention the points increase. The list badly needs the extra activations, its generally quite slow and very expensive. Zombies are quite easy to deal with and generally do nothing other than slow the opponent down.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:41 pm 
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atension wrote:
At 15cm they are nearly pointless as transports.


Contagion Engines aren't transports or War Engines, just AV artillery.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Ohh my mistake My mind was stuck on plague towers...

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 5:55 pm 
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I suspected that was the case. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:04 pm 
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In that case yes I fully agree with the move reduction on contagions.

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