Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 163 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next

Death Guard v0.2

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:05 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
Updated the .pdf with Steve's changes (still located on pg2.). I increased the plague tower price to 325 points never got confirmation on the points for this, its been listed on some lists as 300 and others at 325... Has anyone had a few games with this list yet? I haven't unfortunately though I plan to soon as I've finally finished acquiring all the stuff. Its not even half painted though.

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:43 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Devon, UK
It was dropped to 300 in LatD but I don't think Steve has said anything about dropping the price in Death Guard.

As I've mentioned a few times in the thread, I'm strongly against dropping Plague Towers to 300pt in their own formation - two of them would be cheaper than a Repugnant while putting out substantially more firepower and being arguably better in an assault, plus they're generally more robust and are better at supporting fire.

In theory they're the same in LatD but in Death Guard it's in a Strategy 4 list with largely Initiative 1+ formations.

_________________
The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:26 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:43 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Devon, UK
P.S. From the first post:

Quote:
PLAGUE TOWERS
1-3 Plague Towers 325pts each
Upgrades: Walkers, Contagion Engines, Dreadnoughts


...

Quote:
UPGRADES
Plague towers 300pts


So 325 in formation, 300 when added to a Retinue or to Contagion Engines.

_________________
The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:37 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
Couple concerns I have with the list. The severe reduction of power with the plague ship is overkill in my opinion. It was actually one of the main reasons I wanted to start a DG list. Terminators are extremely expensive and I don't think I would ever include. A formation of 4 while yes would be a pain to kill with the 4+ RA, fearless and Inv is still pretty easy to break. Adding upgrades to the formation is even more prohibitively expensive. I also agree about needing to take a look at the troop delivery methods. Currently all a DG force can do is grind up the field at 2/3 the speed (no marching) in rhinos, landraiders and/or Plague towers. Rhinos aren't the best option as AV fire can easily snipe off the rhinos leaving the formations movement drastic impaired and towers/raiders are quite costly. I was cool with this provided you could hamper the enemy with the spawned plague zombie swarms from the plague ship but now that that is severely reduced its not very viable anymore. Its not like they have much for ranged firepower either, the weapons they do have are mostly short range. What do people think about adding back dreadclaws or including chaos thunderhawks?

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Last edited by atension on Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:38 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
IJW Wartrader wrote:
P.S. From the first post:

Quote:
PLAGUE TOWERS
1-3 Plague Towers 325pts each
Upgrades: Walkers, Contagion Engines, Dreadnoughts


...

Quote:
UPGRADES
Plague towers 300pts


So 325 in formation, 300 when added to a Retinue or to Contagion Engines.


Yes that's what I made it

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:12 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
Been thinking about it a lot, I know my previous suggestion for transport isn't the most Nurgley but they need something. I'm worried that as it stands now it will both underperform and be a little boring to play. What about really playing up the Plague zombie angle. In most of the literature dead opponents come back as plague zombies. What about adding a plague zombie rule where your formations gain plague zombie units for units they kill.

Something like:
Consuming Plague - Units with this ability add plague zombie units to their formation for each enemy unit killed in an assault, hackdown kills don't generate plague zombies. Units are only added after combat resolution dice are rolled. (Would be able to participate in second round if combat is tied)

Now that would be FUN, very thematic and unique. It would give the units some added defence when slogging around the board from shooting and being broken but in some instances actually detract from assault resolution as expendable units killed still count towards combat resolution. Would also make the terminators worth their points.

I don't know how it would work with transports, though I guess they are expendable so you could just leave them behind if all you have is rhinos. would give added incentive to use plague towers though as they have transport (16)

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:43 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Devon, UK
For what it's worth, with the EpicUK Death Guard list I usually don't bother with transports at all and garrison the DG Retinues, often with a garrison of Contagion Engines sitting just behind them. In this list it's even easier because the cheap Chaos Spawn let you stretch the formation further, to get the DG themselves into cover more easily.

Although I do need to try a DG Retinue with added Plague Tower, now they've got the 20cm move.

_________________
The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:26 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
So I finally got some stuff together for a DG army. From the posts ive gathered, they are "meh" over all and pretty expensive point wise. Im not looking to crush in tourneys, but here is a list I put together and im wondering if its ok or not?

Plague Ret -390
4 Marines
3 Havocs
4 rhino

Plague Ret -390
4 Marines
3 Havocs
4 rhino

4 Death Shroud Termines - 500
Sup Commander
Icon Bearer
demonic pact

5 Blight Drones - 275

4 Contagion Engines 325

Plague tower - 300

Fester titan - 275

Fester titan - 275

Plague Reaper - 200

6 Plague Bearers

I would summon the Plaguebearers with the termies and keep them around with the Icon so they can take the hits and keep the termies going. Thoughts? Help would be great!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:49 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
That's not bad. A couple things to consider though.
1. Keep the Supreme commander out of the BTS - your BTS already has a big target on its head for the victory point no need in adding your supreme commander to the mix (titans aside).
2. Supreme commander starting on the board - Terms teleport and you may want to keep them off the board first turn and deploy them later when there is a tactical sensitive target that opens up. Your opponent if they have a bit of experience will expect the terminator assault and will deploy so that he/she covers the sensitive assets from assault. You don't get the reroll if your supreme commander is in reserves.
3. Suggest you give the pact to more than just the terminators its only 10 pts more than paying for just a lesser daemon (as it gives you a daemon for free) and lets another formation summon as well.
4. You have no AA that could really hurt depending on what you are facing.

Other than that you might want to think about dropping the rhinos off one of your Plague routines and deploy them as a garrison covering your garrisoning plague engines. (Plague engines work very well when garrisoned as they let you hit the whole board first turn with indirect BP disrupt fire)

On a side note the DG routines are dropping 25 points and the tower is going up 25 points.

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:43 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: Devon, UK
scourn99 wrote:
So I finally got some stuff together for a DG army. From the posts ive gathered, they are "meh" over all and pretty expensive point wise. Im not looking to crush in tourneys, but here is a list I put together and im wondering if its ok or not?


I wouldn't say they're 'meh'* but the strength of the DG Retinues is in assaults rather than shooting, unless you spend a substantial amount of points adding Walkers and/or Contagion Engines.

To echo atension, adding Daemonic Pact to the two DG Retinues will give you a lot more flexibility, and I second the idea of garrisoning one Retinue as the Contagion Engines are pretty fragile in themselves. If you can find the points somewhere, beefing up the garrisoning DG Retinue with Walkers and/or Chaos Spawn will give them more punch, especially three Spawn for a mere 75 points.



*Using the similar EpicUK DG list I came third at a twenty-player tournament earlier this year!

_________________
The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:28 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
Hey, Question... Whats a Death Guard Desecrator look like? The plague hulk is the defiler legs/claws with a daemon top... but I cant find pictures of the Desecrator.. unless its suppose to be a Decimator (the larger version Deadnought).

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:30 pm 
Hybrid
Hybrid
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm
Posts: 926
Location: Toronto
Played two games today using the list. Not sure if either were very representative of the list as the first one I had unbelievable luck on the first turn with the Plague ship and my opponent had some very unfortunate rolls. It was called mid turn 2 as most of his formations were broken, half destroyed and I still had 5 activations after his were exhausted. The second game was the exact opposite I had atrocious luck that ended with a 4:0 loss at the end of turn 3.

Incompertus, 2990 POINTS
Death Guard (NetEA V0.2)
==================================================

DAEMON POOL [125]
5 Plaguebearer, Great Unclean one
DEATH GUARD RETINUE [425]
7 Plague Marines, Daemonic Pact (includes 1 Plaguebearer), Nurgle Daemon Prince, Chaos Champion
DEATH GUARD RETINUE [390]
Plague Lord, Daemonic Pact (includes 1 Plaguebearer), 4 Plague Marines, 3 Havoc, 4 Death Guard Rhino
PLAGUE TOWER [325]
Plague Tower
PLAGUE TOWER [325]
Plague Tower
WALKER HORDE [275]
4 Death Guard Defiler
BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones
BLIGHT DRONE SWARM [250]
5 Blight Drones
DEATH GUARD HELLBLADES [200]
3 Death Guard Hellblade Fighters
DEATH GUARD HELLTALONS [225]
2 Death Guard Helltalon Fighter-Bombers
PLAGUE SHIP [200]

Game 1 against Blood Angels
First turn DG won roll off. Space ship barrage hit three units killing 3 of the death squad and breaking it and killing a few from two other tactical squads. The towers doubling forward broke two more units because of very good to hit rolls with the disrupt. He used a bunch of activations to clean up the zombies from the plague ship which meant I had 3 unimpeded activations at the end of the turn.
Turn 2 BA lost initiative. He did a combined used some marauders to bomb my BTS only doing 1BM then used commander ability to draw three activations (tacticats with some landraiders and vindicators) into assault against my BTS. He roll a little blow average of hits and scored 7 hits and I rolled very well scoring 10 hits one a MW from the prince. I ended up losing 2 units and him 6 then causing 2 more with hackdowns. after that he has really nothing left and I had almost everything. So we called it understandably.

Game 2 was against a Ork Ghazgkhull list with a ton of Zap guns and fliers.
Turn 1 DG won initiative and went first with the plague ship it hit nothing but droped the max amount of zombies with was handy. I failed 4 activations 2 of which were fliers. and had one of my towers go down before even activating from two extremely luck Zzap gun shots.
It was pretty even turn 2. The DG marine formations and the drones really did some damage to his infantry formations. The towers did absolutely nothing. I failed most of my rally rolls in the end phase of rounds 1 and 2 so I was severely out activated in turn 3. At the start of turn 3 it was 1:0 for me at the end of turn three due to crossfire, more zap gun shot and a ton of Fighta-bombers it ended 4:0 as I had nothing left on the board that wasn't broken.


Thoughts: It performed well all the fearless was pain in the #$@ for my opponent to deal with. Had I rolled even a little better the second game for activations and rallying it would have been a much closer game. The first game my opponent learned a valuable lesson about assaulting a fully daemoned out squad of Plague marines. The Plague marines squads are slow! losing one rhino was very painful for mobility. The drones were very handy but weren't too difficult to pick off to break so that was good. We played the plague ship with 4BP disrupt at 200points one group of zombies/template. It was pretty good, the zombies were a huge nuisance, not really killing anything but the extra activations were invaluable. My opponent the second game did very well at picking off my smaller activations and impeding the movement of my larger ones. The slowness of the force really let him control the board.


Attachments:
File comment: Game 1 start of turn 1
20150613_110448_resized.jpg
20150613_110448_resized.jpg [ 183.51 KiB | Viewed 1809 times ]
File comment: Game 1 start of turn 2
20150613_114645_resized.jpg
20150613_114645_resized.jpg [ 254.01 KiB | Viewed 1809 times ]

_________________
Necron AC (click to see current Necron list threads)
Toronto Wargaming Group
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:25 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:22 am
Posts: 191
atension wrote:
Hey, Question... Whats a Death Guard Desecrator look like? The plague hulk is the defiler legs/claws with a daemon top... but I cant find pictures of the Desecrator.. unless its suppose to be a Decimator (the larger version Deadnought).


It is just a chaos God specific defined variant. See http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Defiler#Desecrator

Not sure what would be a good proxy besides normal defined with little tweeks


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:58 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:36 am
Posts: 71
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Is that Lexicanium page actually referencing Epic (experimental) army lists, which then reference Lexicanium as their sources? There's a Journal reference for the Desecrator, but it looks like the Deceiver and Debaser are entirely created by the Epic community...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v0.2
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:53 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 7:28 am
Posts: 295
Location: Seevetal, Germany
Morsla wrote:
Is that Lexicanium page actually referencing Epic (experimental) army lists, which then reference Lexicanium as their sources?

LOL

It looks like that!

_________________
Thousand Sons Army Champion

My pueppchenspieler blog

Building a House Devine Army


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 163 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net