Sorry, I meant some oher core choices oher then defilers.

As someone who fights against the Iron Warriors fairly regularly, I thought I would add some feedback - with the caveat that I don't actually play the list, so my input probably shouldn't count as much as someone's who does.

I personally don't see a reason to raise the Defiler cost to 425. I feel that 400 is fair for them, and this is coming from someone who gets pasted by them quite regularly. The fact is that they are fairly easy to kill. A salvo of half decent anti-tank fire kills three and breaks the formation. They also suffer from jack-of-all-trades syndrome. Do I stay at range and shoot with the battle cannons? Do I run up and let loose with all that short range shooty goodness? Do I take advantage of the infiltrate and extra CC attack and charge? No matter what they do in any given turn, they are not living up to their full potential. I feel 400 is fair.

I think I disagree with your friend that IW Companies are useless. How is an 8 strong 4+ save unit with 10 autocannon shots useless? Those two Havok units in there really add a ranged punch to the unit. In any case, our L.A. group feels that the Chaos Marine Company is the most versatile weapon at Volrath's disposal. Not to mention durable. You saw in my last batrep against him, his Companies were Public Enemy #1. I want those things dead every time I see them across the table from me.

I know I said that the list is pretty powerful, and here I am telling you not to nerf them. I know that's weird. I'll have to give some more thought to what exactly about them feels so powerful. But, as I mentioned, even if you didn't nerf them, I don't think they're crazy over-powered. They are very strong, but beatable.

Here, I'll show you what Volrath usually takes and maybe you can identify what's powerful about it. He almost always takes a list like this, and does very well with it -

IRON WARRIORS COMPANY [400]
6 Chaos Space Marines and 2 Havocs, Stalker, Warsmith (Supreme Commander)

IRON WARRIORS COMPANY [350]
6 Chaos Space Marines and 2 Havocs, Iron Warriors Lord, Stalker

IRON WARRIOR TERMINATORS [275]
Iron Warriors Lord, 4 Iron Warrior Terminator

DEFILER ASSAULT PACK [400]
6 Defilers

ARMOURED COMPANY [200]
4 Chaos Predator

ARMOURED COMPANY [250]
5 Chaos Predator

SUPER HEAVY COMPANY – DECIMATOR [225]
Decimator

SUPER HEAVY COMPANY – DECIMATOR [225]
Decimator

RAVAGER TITAN [650]

In a nutshell, he will push forward aggressively with the Companies and then camp on an objective or other chokepoint. He'll occupy the center of the table with the titan. And he'll hang the Decimators back to guard his backfield and Blitz. With the small armored companies, he harasses, flanks, and support assaults. He tends to play fairly aggressively with the Defilers early in the game, pushing them forward, and then using them as a rapid reaction force as the game goes on. The Terminators he uses as a throw away harassment unit to distract the enemy.

It's very effective, and when he's on his game and the dice are nice to him, he's very tough to beat.

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Hello guy´s,

I´m a regular opponent of Settra and i have played both with and against the Iron Warriors for quite a few games, my opinion on it is that its a strong list (although not unbeatable).

My understanding on why its a strong list is limited so i wont comment on that.

I will comment though, and please take it as constructive criticism, that because of all the artillery the list is (for me) a bit boring to play after a few games.

Would be great to be able to play the list in more than 1 style, per example i would love if the drop pods were somehow made more viable.

I always find it more interesting when the same army can be used in various ways.

Just trying to add a different point of view, don't let it slow down the path to list approval, and good job on the list so far.

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Thanks for all the comments!

At this point, I'm leaning towards a 25pt increase to the Defilers (425pts) and to the Havocs (325pts) along with removing some of the unnecessary upgrades.
I'll keep the Havocs and Iron Warrior Companies where they are.

Any other comments/suggestions before I release V3?
I'll be looking to put together a proper army list soon. It'll include pictures and unit details.

kyussinchains - any thought to a joint campaign document with the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors (it was a suggestion from CAL001 - Aaron recently)?
I don't know how much time I'd have to work out interesting details but at least a joint document with stats/modelling suggestions would be fluffy and interesting!

*edit - any thoughts on the Stalker AA range as per THIS thread?

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I'm in!!

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Cool!
We'll talk soon.

Changes for V3.0
9th August 2014
- Increased the Havoc Company to 325pts
- Increased the Defiler Assault Pack to 425pts
- Removed various formation upgrades that were unnecessary/seldom used
- Fixed a couple of typos on the Siege Lord Titan

Download in the original post.

I'm quite amazed that V2.5a had over 145 downloads...
Hopefully, V3.0 will do better!

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I will playtest the new list soon, most likely against Xeno.

And to chime in, I field my defilers literally because I love the models, not because they do terribly well. I've had them be beaten by ork buggies in combat on bad rolls, and shot up quite easily by many units. The actual models themselves take up quite a bit of room on the table and really, from my playing, do more on a psychological factor than anything. I usually field 6, as 8 just takes up too damn much room and becomes unwieldy. Battlecannon shots are nothing to sneeze at, but really, in a list that can take cannons for days, why hide in the back? In CC they got to be used just right, and the infiltration does help them get there, but then you're really only talking about a unit with 6-8 stands, and thats if they reach their target completely unmolested. I agreed with your previous idea that the other chaos lists had them at a certain price and they should stay accordingly so. But, in IW having them as a core maybe changes that.
Obliterators have crushed far more things for me in my games than my defilers, and my list currently usually has me either taking them or defilers.
The IW company is the staying power. 8+ strong 4up save marine units, havocs included, that can dish 45cm shots, and stay pretty good in CC is nothing to sneeze at, but i feel for a fully equipped formation they sit pretty good where they are at and i dont see changing them.
I also found it funny that people complained SO much about the ordinatus. I dropped using it after about 4-5 games. It died in the first turn versus every opponent, against every army. It does not survive. LOVE the model, the fluff and the raw power, but its reserved for larger games. Replaced with the Ravager and my ability to just purely survive drastically increased. If you take the ordinatus in a 3k game, they WILL kill that on the first turn against a good opponent, and thats one shot from a 625 point unit, and they just got your BTS. its an uphill battle from there, and its usually negative.
It is a tough army, no doubt. I run a mainly armored force, but in the end my companies take the objectives and have the numbers to hold out usually. If someone doesnt really have ANY anti-tank, similar to BA before Xeno changed the list, then I can see this a tough list to beat.

And Xenos is already working on his Imperial Fists....so that rivalry will be in Los Angeles soon =)

Long story short I'm not sure how to make it a less effective army, or where exactly defilers fit into how i want to play. Every game i've been conflicted with keeping them back and firing away, or rushing up and using that close range firepower/CC. I have yet to zero in on it, but they tend to do alot of nothing in my games hahah, 2-3 blast markers and that's kind of it.

Changing point costs does change things, as that usually means figuring out how to get that supreme commander or additional AA tank, so the choices shift a little...anyways, no clue where im going with this, but we'll playtest more for sure. Thanks for continuing development!

cheers

-V

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A short, and maybe stupid, question: What is the status of this list? Is it "Experimental" oder "In development"? Do you consider it stable enough for tournament play?

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Well I have used this list in at least 3 tournaments and 3 month long campaigns. It certainly hasn't dominated any of these events with the best finish a runner-up at Cancon (Australian 18 player tournament) earlier this year.

I consider this list to be near finished. The EpicUK version (which is quite similar) is approved for their tournament scene.
I've played 2 games this week (batreps on their way) with a Victory Point 4th turn win over Codex Marines and a 4:0 loss to Biel-Tan.

Basically, I'm going to be looking for 2 more groups to provide 6 battle reports and we can submit the list for approval.

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as the player of the marines which Onyx mentioned my only issue with the IW list are the Oblits - the amount of AA they add is OTT when u factor in the amount of Stalkers the list can cater for (or maybe that was just bitter experience speaking after taking a list with lots of AC & not being a good player ) 4 oblits give you 12 shots from the unit (against ground or air targets)- they dominate on the ground and against AC as well...the ability to garrison them in a forward position on overwatch allows the IW to set up a pretty effective AA screen across a large part of the board from the outset and the overwatch fire they dish out is gonna hurt most units trying to take them out in engagement...range shooting is about the best way to hurt them but with terminator like saves it takes plenty of shooting to hammer them (unless ur opponent has poor dice rolls for saves)...

otherwise its a tough & challenging list to play against - what u want from a list IMHO...

Volrath's comments about the Ordinatus were interesting - me thinks he isnt as paranoid as Onyx...Onyx rarely had his ordinatus die as he normally has a unit baby sitting it for most of the game...i have seen Onyx's surrounded by defiles or marine companies just to make sure no pesky teleporters/air assault units can get to his beloved ordinatus locally the Ordinatus has a fearsome reputation and thats probably because of Onyx's tactics with the beastie more than its stats (I think his Ordinatus gets more respect than a Warlord among the local players)...i would rather his ravager take the field than the Ordinatus! dont think its OTT for the points u pay for it with its current stats...

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hi there,

the reason for largo asking is that we have an upcoming tournament and i spent a couple of months finishing my iron warriors according to onyx list and of course i'm keen on bringing them to battle for the first time in a real challenge.

i agree with frosthammer that the obliterator squad can be a pain when deployed forward garrisoned as AA screen. statistically it means 2 hits on anything that passes through. but this unit is easily suppressed with each blastmarker reducing the fire output significanrtly as you have no upgrade option that could be used as suppression takers. apart from the creating of a fire magnet by centering lots of AA units at the frontline it also is quite expensive on the paper when building an army.
as last thought, when upgrading for example black legion retinues (approved) with oblits you get a better effectiveness as there are suppressible units included. can be garrisoned also.

as for the ordinatus i can only speculate. reads good on paper. but as mentioned you would always need a good babysitter. i've tested the imperial counterpart once in battle and it proved to be devastating versus orks.

cheers

I'd have no issues allowing the IW in a tournament, IMO the list is progressing really well and will hopefully will be approved soon rather than later with only minor changes.

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Armyforge says no.

The PDF looks like you could have either a Warsmith Lord and Daemon Prince or just a Warsmith Daemon Prince.

One of those may need to be cleared up, unless I read it wrong.

The intention is to allow a Daemon Prince and a seperate Warsmith in the army (think M'Kar and Honsou in the invasion of Ultramar).
I'll contact kyussinchains to see about getting the Armyforge files in line with this (I believe it was my inexperience with Armyforge that caused this in the first place).

I've got 3 more tournament games tomorrow so I'll be getting close to my 6 games (if I can get proper batreps done during the event).

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