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Death Guard 3.x

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:57 am 
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I will try to give the updated list (including plague zombies) by the next weekend.

As for the costing on the Plague Marines, they are 150 points for 4 as an upgrade in the main Chaos list.. I will review and see what I come up with

I have no plan to place the Plague Tower as a Transport option. The rules allow you to use it as a transport. The other thing it adds is unit size at the cost of activations (not a good thing), but I have added the ease for Daemon Summoning to give you size in formations.

As for the 'fickle rule' I will look and see if it is still part of Black Legion. If it is then it stays.

Quality review and update to the list to come within the week

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Apologies but I may have to push this back until the end of the month as I have a few other items that need some urgent attention.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:12 pm 
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thanks. I'll be playing this weekend. Do you have any changes that you can post? Like the plague marine upgrade?


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:20 pm 
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any news yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:48 am 
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I've been looking at putting together a Death Guard list, and I'm struck somewhat by how expensive all the upgrades are. Spending points on upgrades are already usually not a great idea, it's made even harsher when it takes 100 points to add a few autocannons to a formation.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Hello after much deliberation I have a whole load of suggestions, and keeping the Blessed of the Father core rule. With one extra lesser daemon per Death Guard Retinue.
1-Core formation/Death Guard Retinue-7 marines and a Lord/Sorcerer but no free Daemon Pact for 275 points.(Sticking with the Death guard theme)
2-Support formation/Terminator Retinue-4 terminators and a Lord/Sorcerer but with fearless for 400 points. With the chance to buy 3 more for 75 points each. (This was a good thing in the previous list but with extra flavour)
3-Support formation/Armoured Assault-1 Plague Reaper without Daemon Pact as a upgrade for 225. (This is on a par with the Decimator so I felt it was a bit pricey for 275)
4-Upgrade a Death Guard Retinue to Plague Marines for 65 points
5-Upgrade formations with Rhinos for 10 each, (1 per 2 Units)
[Brother Colathrax inhaled the intoxicating aroma of his masters putrescent benediction and offered a short prayer to Father Nurgle]

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:54 am 
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personally i like the daemon pact coming with the retinue. i think it makes them different. i also think it forces you to play aggressively. only 6 marines if you are getting attacked but 6 plus demons if you are the one assaulting.
as for the whole sacred number thing, i could care less. if you want it, put 7 marines to a base. then again, 6 marines or 7 to a formation, i guess is not that big of a difference.
and as i said in an earlier post, i don't see how fearless is so great that it warrants 65 points. you are losing a shooting attack. but i seem to be in the minority on this.
i do like getting rid of the free rhinos. i always feel like i'm getting ripped off if i don't use them (for garrisons).


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am 
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I really liked the whole 25 points for Transport thing.

Don't care about the sacred numbers in the squad, the 'free' demon is a good compromise.

I got a game in yesterday, and the 4 Terminators with neither Fearless nor ATSKNF were very fragile. Demon Summoning helps, but only if you go first. I don't think Fearless is the solution though, especially not at that high a cost.

Didn't take the Plague Reaper, but agreed on it being too expensive. It seems inherently worse than the Decimator. Losing IC, MW, and 1 BP off the main gun is too much for a very slight advantage when firing at mixed formations. The Nurgling Swarm is a great little special rule, but isn't worth a whole lot except as a mild deterrent.

The option to replace three Death Guard with Plague Marines is great, allows for adding some fearless to the formation, without stressing the sheer obnoxiousness of fearless 3+ save infantry.

EDIT: The small size to the formations is really painful for breaking purposes. I know the bonus to the armor save really necessitates some sort of change, but breaking with just 6 blast markers is pretty rough. The high cost for the upgrades really aggravates this problem.

Questions:

Is the Demon Prince intended to be able to ride inside Rhinos and Land Raiders? He's included in the transport options.

If the intent of the Support Upgrade on the Terminators is to allow them to take Land Raiders for transport, they are currently unable to; the upgrade only allows three Land Raiders.

When do you roll for Plague Zombies? We played with the roll being made after the decision to teleport, but before placement.

If you have a retinue with an Icon Bearer inside of a Plague Tower, can they summon some more demons while inside, filling up some of the transport space?


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:27 am 
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The Plague Zombies formation roll their 2D6 extra zombies after both teleporting and placement (you place the first unit then roll then place the rest). Cause their very cheap and random but irritating.

The rhino transport option is far to cheap because if you go full size on the formation your getting lots of free rhinos. That is 6 marines then 2 extra marines then 2 havocs makes 5 rhinos of mobile death especially if you include summoning in daemons and greater daemons it becomes a bit OTT. Not to mention Plague Marines and of course 3+ save space marines.
Regrading terminators the regular space marine terminators are 350 and death guard ones have a lord in. With leader,fearless and extra MW CC attack which is what terminators do and daemon summoning as well. Having strategy rating 4 and 1+ initiative seems pretty good.
Yeah and a full unit of Plague marines is sick but I like the idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:26 am 
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I like it too. Maybe a limit on the upgrade?


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:54 pm 
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Consul Avenging Angel wrote:
Regrading terminators the regular space marine terminators are 350 and death guard ones have a lord in. With leader,fearless and extra MW CC attack which is what terminators do and daemon summoning as well.


That's just it though; they don't have Fearless.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:24 pm 
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That is what I meant the terminator formation should be fearless but not that cheap, mainly for theme reasons due to the rarity in the Death Guard Legion. Effectively the old style with option to increase formation size to seven.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:06 pm 
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The thing about fearless mnb I think, is its so so useful especially with a good initiative means no retreating when broken and you can move towards the enemy instead of having to move outside 15cm, no casualties from blast markers when broken, and as you mentioned no deaths from lost combat which can destroy the hardest non-fearless formation. Shooting attacks only soften units up.

Yeah I like the upgrade idea perhaps as Elite Support formation along with terminators. O0

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:55 am 
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anyone hear from frogbear?


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard 3.x
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:27 am 
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mnb wrote:
anyone hear from frogbear?

He is going through some real life issues ATM, and I would believe this would be the last thing on his mind.

I can let him know to check the forum, as I speak to him at leat a few times a week.


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