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Daemon World List

 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:37 am 
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Personally I'd drop the mutant horde as a core choice, if the world has passed far enough into possession to be called a daemon world then all the remaining 'humans' would be totally subservient to their daemon masters.

Just leave them as upgrade choices, with demagogue/CSM Champions (they are past aspiring at this point ;) ) as upgrades too.

If you want to portray a world on the path to possession the LaTD list represents that.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:34 pm 
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OK, I will look to getting a new PDF done which removes the excess stuff and gives us a solid base to work from.

While I am doing that, what do people think of splitting out the lesser daemons / porting over 40k daemon units?

EDIT: Also, Heralds? yay or nay?

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Last edited by novemberrain on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:36 pm 
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More daemonic, less human for me. Make the list even farther from LaTD.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:52 pm 
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split them out, port them over- all good.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Update!

I have re-arranged the list:

Cutting out the Cultists, Mutants, Marines and Engines.
Splitting out the Daemon types - Lesser into Core, Specialist into Support Packs
Tidied up the remants of the summoning mechanic
Updated the Chaos Altar re: above
Updated the Plague Zombies to match other lists
Added in placeholder stats for new units (Fiends, Chariots, Soulgrinders, Nurglings)
Added stats for all units to the end of the list - should make things a bit easier.

Other things:
1) The stats for the newly added units, and the size of their formations, are just place-holders for now and will undoubtedly need changing.

2) I have left the Daemon Hordes without Heralds for now, and at the same formation size as before, however how do people feel about this? Is it worth adding Heralds?

3) I have left off the points cost for a Soulgrinder atm - given Defilers are 62.5pts each with all their shots but only one CC MW attack, I was thinking 50pts could be a good testing start, but was unsure.

4) Also each Chaos God currently has one Core and two Support packs, apart from Undivided. I was thinking a pure Soulgrinder fm to fill this gap or possibly a Fury formation. Any preferences, or both?

4) The Chaos Altar probably needs a points drop - it is 150pts in the LatD with all of its summoning extras - 100pts?

5) I think currently the Slaaneshi Support packs are very similar in style and role, I think they need diversifying, as do Flamers from Horrors.

Hopefully this helps things along!
Cheers guys.


Attachments:
Daemon World 2.3.pdf [36.45 KiB]
Downloaded 348 times

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Sorry but I'm unlikely to use that list. I liked Chroma's original list with the daemon engines, whose weirdness actually fits in the list IMO.

List building which adds units for which no models exist or will exist, and also ditching models which have existed is of little interest to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:44 pm 
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I'm thinking that Daemon Engines can't fit in both the Daemon World list and the LatD list (which is a cultist list from an imperial world). Either they're weird creations only possible on a Daemon World, or they are ramshackle constructions possessed by summoned daemons.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:55 pm 
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cool. I'll take your updated demon stats for the cult chaos titan list, but can we liaise a little over the soulgrinder stats?
Mine in the Stygian Abyss demon engine list are basically the same, except they have some firefight capability too

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:19 pm 
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I feel the list loses something by being so structured. I would like to suggest having 4 core formations (5 if undivided) and list any/all of the respective daemons under each of the chaos gods. Then state that you can take 6-10 units of any type then list the points per unit.

Let the players decide how they wish to form their formations.

It would all be very chaotic and quite suitable.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:34 am 
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Hmm, Horrors as core and Flamers as support. That's me scuppered.


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:30 am 
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Horrors are a really fun conversion from the current plastic plague bearers.

What about a 4 unit soulgrinder support formation?
You could also add a single 'generic stat' deamon engine option, giving them a small presence.
If there were a lot of daemon engines, that should be a sperate forge of souls list.


Also people mentioning existing models being removed for new ones with no mini – nothing stops you proxying your death dealers for soul grinders etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:36 am 
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As it stands you can't get a Daemon Prince, no Herald to replace anymore ;) And not stat's for the Zombies, and could they be renamed to represent a horde of mindless worshippers somehow... ok Zombies still works lol.

Also what lessers are undivided?


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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:42 am 
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OK, one at a time!

Markconz wrote:
Sorry but I'm unlikely to use that list. I liked Chroma's original list with the daemon engines, whose weirdness actually fits in the list IMO.List building which adds units for which no models exist or will exist, and also ditching models which have existed is of little interest to me.


I think the daemon engines are the best of the things ditched - however they do appear in alternative lists and I think they have more scope to fully flesh them out. As it is by focusing on Daemons in this list, and Daemon engines elsewhere they may both finally see the light of day! I think EPIC has moved far beyond the limitations of models - alot of approved SM lists have non-existant models (Scions of Iron and LR Crusaders, LR Helios), alot of approved IG lists have non-existant models (DKoK with their Macharius and Breaching Drill) - while the models being removed are not being ditched for no reason. New lists require a certain flexibility on the part of the player, and this has never been a barrier to other list development - epic with only extant miniatures would be very sad.

Ulrik wrote:
I'm thinking that Daemon Engines can't fit in both the Daemon World list and the LatD list (which is a cultist list from an imperial world). Either they're weird creations only possible on a Daemon World, or they are ramshackle constructions possessed by summoned daemons.


Plus I dont think one list could give full expression to both daemons in thier plurality and to the hosts of different Daemon Engines.

madd0ct0r wrote:
cool. I'll take your updated demon stats for the cult chaos titan list, but can we liaise a little over the soulgrinder stats?
Mine in the Stygian Abyss demon engine list are basically the same, except they have some firefight capability too


Sure thing, though I wouldn't move over any stats atm. Any of the new daemon stats were just rough guesses of where to start from rather than any serious proposal - Can you send me over your Soul Grinder stats?

frogbear wrote:
I feel the list loses something by being so structured. I would like to suggest having 4 core formations (5 if undivided) and list any/all of the respective daemons under each of the chaos gods. Then state that you can take 6-10 units of any type then list the points per unit.

Let the players decide how they wish to form their formations.

It would all be very chaotic and quite suitable.


I like that idea! So have "Khorne Horde: May contain up to 10 of the folliwing at appropriate points cost: BLetters, FHounds, Juggernauts" etc? Might be hard to balance.

Tiny-Tim wrote:
Hmm, Horrors as core and Flamers as support. That's me scuppered.


Easy change, though Flamer to Horror conversions are pretty simple. Horrors are generally regarded as the 'core' tzeentch daemon.

Apocolocyntosis wrote:
Horrors are a really fun conversion from the current plastic plague bearers.
What about a 4 unit soulgrinder support formation?
You could also add a single 'generic stat' deamon engine option, giving them a small presence.
If there were a lot of daemon engines, that should be a sperate forge of souls list.
Also people mentioning existing models being removed for new ones with no mini – nothing stops you proxying your death dealers for soul grinders etc.


I was planning on converting from Flamers, clipping off the bulbous ends of thier arms and having a different paintjob. One of the joys of 6mm isn't it?

I had mentioned thinking about a pure Soul Grinder fm - I will get stats from MadDoctor and have a look. I can see Daemon Engines being in as allies, but I agree that leaving them to a list which has a better chance of fleshing them out is best.

Mephiston wrote:
As it stands you can't get a Daemon Prince, no Herald to replace anymore ;) And not stat's for the Zombies, and could they be renamed to represent a horde of mindless worshippers somehow... ok Zombies still works lol.
Also what lessers are undivided?


Yeah I mentioned above that I have left Heralds out for know, awaitign feedback on whether people really feel they are necessary. Otherwise it is a simple change to just make it "add a Daemon Prince to any Daemonic Horde"

Argh! I thought I had included all the stats :P
Lesser Undivided are Daemonic Beasts and Furies.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, really great :)

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:53 am 
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I like the idea of heralds, fun modelling opportunities and adds some character to stands of monotonous lesser daemons.

Plague bearer horrors, they don't match thew new 28mm plastics so well though:
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Daemon World List
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:02 pm 
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viewtopic.php?p=455387#p455387

Hmm, bright pastels = Horror's..... oh dear new project alert :(


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