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[Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.7
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=23250
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Author:  madd0ct0r [ Tue May 15, 2012 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  [Experimental] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.7

UPDATE:

this list is now being taken forward by Caz.
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=30466
This thread is no longer active.

Archive below:
----

Version 0.7

1) Made the changes to CC weapons.
2) Removed Vicious Epithet, I'm just not convinced it could be balanced.
3) Swapped the extra guns for First strike in the Corrupted Epithet (mostly to save table space)
4) Bunch of reformatting. Many thanks to Apoc for his guidance.

Still to do: finish adding in everything to the ref sheets and reformat them. Might have to wait until I have time. Everything is in the compilation, except the Great Spawn, which can be fond in the Stygian Demon Engines List.

V0.6

Changes
1) moved list over LATEX for type setting, it's beautiful and now I've a tmeplate much much easier then working with excel.

2) Factions rule removed. It's on the way out across the board, and I didn't really want to label evey formation as which god is possible. Instead, the morale is still very low, but improves when close and improves again in base contact- so you get lots of formations, but they need to hug the big titans to remain effective, forcing the big titans to move up and engage as well. (hopefully).

3) Added Imperator - not 100% on how balanced it is, the 2 epithets options gives a ton of possible combinations so I may have over looked something. It's pretty expensive though, especially the more you load it up with.

4) got most of the unit stats back into the document. no idea how they fell out.

0.7 should be done soonish (I'm hosting a conference this weekend, and have just started a new job, so it was luck I had a long bus journey yesterday to do this one :) ) Focus will be on correcting the CC stats back to realistic attacks, and adding the stats for the other units (possibly pruning the air choices)

---

Still to do:

Spacecraft.

Fixing barbaric - I think I will swap the (base contact) EA(2+) for a (base contact EA(+1) TK(d3) to represent huge jaws. That should make the epithet worth more, bringing the cost of cheapest titan up to a more sensible price.

Fixing Vicious - it's near impossible to balance as it makes titans exponentially better the more CCw's they have. The output price range from a 4 CCW titian to a 4 rocket launcher one can be up to 200points difference!

Attachments:
titanlegion0.7.pdf [61.01 KiB]
Downloaded 473 times

Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Tue May 15, 2012 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

Interesting list, I don't see the Carapace Hive upgrade and where Epithets fit in.

Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Tue May 15, 2012 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

Looking good – What about some dark of dark mech skitarii units in addition to/instead of the marines?

Not sure about the content options for the carapace hives. Takes a god-customizable list and makes it very god specific, eg only allow tzeentch and slaanesh daemons.

Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Tue May 15, 2012 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

I'm also not sure how soul grinders normally operate, do they need to be a separate formation, or an upgrade? eg replace any number of defilers at +25pt per pair.

Author:  dptdexys [ Tue May 15, 2012 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

Interesting looking list, but I'm finding the Assault Fist and Energy Flail have odd stats.

Both have range of base contact (imagine their supposedly CC/Assault weapons) but you have given them attacks that can only be used when shooting so would not be allowed to get into base contact and shoot.
Should the stats be extra attacks using the models normal CC/FF stats.

Weapon ranges work better staying with increases of 15cm, as some of the stats have 40cm and 55cm ranges would it be better to stick with normal 45cm and 60cm ranges.

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Wed May 16, 2012 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

good - the response i was dreading was 'why are there so few weapons?'

Tiny-Tim - Carapace hive upgrade is part of the 'corrupted' epithet. reavers and warlords can each take a single epithet if they want. (i'll edit the list to make these clearer)

Apoc - you got any good ideas for other hosted formations? I ran out of flyers without creating new units. Soulgrinders are a completely separate formation, very different battlefield role.

dptdexys - well, the intention was to make them easier to track - they act just like a normal weapon, but in assaults. So you'd roll the 8 dice for the DC and you'd roll the 20 dice for the CCW. Having separate AP/AT scores gave me a little more flexibility in separating the two weapons. Likewise the ranges are adjusted to try and get the balance as tight as possible at the moment - but i can rejig them to 45 and 60 and rebalance, that's doable.

Author:  Apocolocyntosis [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

Furies. They are undivided, so give flying daemon option to any god. The other choice is just to abstract the names – in a list where a titan's faction is mutable based on weapon load-out, just have a 'flying-demon-host' (change name) with a single stat line. Players can model it how they want. Or, decide they don't have to be flyers, a nurgle titan could be striding into battle amidst a sea of writhing nurglings living in the titan's leg hives, whereas the tzeentch titan is followed by clouds of screamers hosted in shoulder hives..

Fair enough on the soulgrinders, cheers for confirming.

Author:  BlackLegion [ Wed May 16, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

Well seriously? 20(!) attacks in CC?

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Thu May 17, 2012 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union

version 0.4 up with the requested changes.

Added acolytes to cult formations and furies to hosted.
clarified how epithets work, especially the carapace hive upgrade.

changed titan weapons ranges to sets of 15cm and rejigged cost.

changed the CCW to the traditional format. This meant I had to use the titan CC stat, which meant the number of attacks had to change, and thus most of the epithet's prices required tweaking. this is why i built that spreadsheet ;)

Black legion is really not going to like the number of new CC attacks. In reality, i think they can be brought down significantly since assaults are more about beating the opposing formation not just crude damage output.
On the other hand, we're talking about slow, expensive titans without any decent artillery. And I really can't think of many things that SHOULD beat a CC Warlord in close combat. Thoughts would be appreciated.

Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu May 17, 2012 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

Just to check that I've understood the list correctly, is this what you would expect a typical build to be like?

Warlord (850) + Assault Fist (0) (1/2 no. of attacks but they become TK(1) - Hulking), Doom Cannon (50), Doom Cannon (50), Storm Caster (0) (Slow Firing & Disrupt - Hulking) & Hulking (80) (See before & +1DC) - 1030pts
Scout Titan Pack (500) + Deathstorm Missle Launchers (0), Deathstorm Missle Launchers (0), Deathstorm Missle Launchers (0) & Deathstorm Missle Launchers (0) - 500pts
Traitor Warhound (250) + Chainfist (0) & Chainfist (0) - 250pts
Traitor Warhound (250) + Chainfist (0) & Chainfist (0) - 250pts
Hell Blades - 200pts
Defilers - 250pts
Defilers - 250pts
Defilers - 250pts

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Thu May 17, 2012 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

hmm. 8 activations and a mixture of heavy short range fire and brutal assault.

an enormous warlord striding down the left of the board, scout titan pack advancing down the right, the two others hunting between them with a scattering of defilers scuttling about claiming objectives.

Certainly the image is good. Perhaps the scout titan pack needs to come out of the core section.

(the warlord should be cheaper though. - I'll need to go back and fix the prices. not sure how they escaped last pass)


EDIT: on reflection, i might cut the scout titan pack completely. a formation of two encourages people to give them all similar weapons (same range, if not identical weapons) when the list is supposed to encourage diversity.

I'll build a few adm-ech lists for comparison I think. The chaos titan cult should have more activations to make up for it's much more limited range.

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Mon May 21, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

planned changes for next iteration:

1) remove the scout titan pack option completely. Traitor warhounds available in the 'lesser titan slots' only.

2) remove infernal weapons. replace with 4 generic warhound weapons and the option of epithets. makes sense to keep them all running on the same mechanic. This will take a little preparation

3) add demon knights, based off slaaneshi knights stats, armed with a single generic warhound weapon (choice of 4).

4) add spacecraft

5) correct the prices for the reaver and warlord chassis

6) add more epithets? - possibles include 'Barbaric', 'Shining', 'Screaming', 'Silent', 'Ruthless,' 'Thrall'

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

about 40% of the way through working up the warhound weapons. Just need to dedicate the next free block i get to it.

(warhound costing should be interesting, as there's three balanced units available to derive ratios from. The spreadsheet estimated the banelord at being overpriced by about 300 points compared to the regular warlord so we're clearly looking at guidline prices here)

Incidentally - Tiny-Tim, did you think the 1000+ points was fair for the beefy warlord you got, or was the relative expensiveness of the main titans the reason you took only one?

--
Spacecraft - i think they'll just be a generic pinpointer and a bigger barrage+pinpointer - has anyone any more interesting ideas? Dropships?

New epithets:

Barbaric - will probably be Leg Bastion Upgrade, reduce firepower of 2 weapons by 1/2, add 3 CC attacks. (this lets me sensibly add non flyers to the hosted formations section for khorne berzerker goodness)

Author:  madd0ct0r [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

spreadsheet updated with warhounds and 'barbaric' and 'ghastly' (BP specialist) added. just need to re balance the lot.

once that's done I'll update the list for review, and start looking at the imperator class.

Author:  lylekelm [ Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [fanlist] Chaos Titan Cult Union 0.4

Good work MD. When i am home again i look forward to having a closer look.

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