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World Eaters 3.7 - List Reviewed and Released

 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List Frozen till 01 Jan 2011
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:44 pm 
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With the most recent directive from Steve54, it is my goal to post up the possible changes for the review in this coming month (September)

I am also madly trying to get enough of a painted army together to start the playtests on these again.

If anyone is playing the odd game here or there, or your just browsing the forum, please feel free to let us know your thoughts on the list.

Cheers......

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List Frozen till 01 Jan 2011
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:43 am 
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I have steadily been working on the various formations and I believe I have almost all the proposed changes ready to post up here.

I do have one formation however that is giving me grief. Although feedback has been minimal, I will keep plodding along, however I thought I would give a call out again to see if people had any further ideas.

Firstly:
One of the proposals is to remove 'Fearless' from the Skull Lords. Please keep that in mind

Secondly:
My goal is to not have any Core formation at less than 200 points regardless of restrictions that may be imposed.

Thirdly
The World Eater Chosen are a step above all other units. They have proven themselves to be the best and are given the privilege of potentially being the first into battle - leading the force. These are not scouts.

The issue:
Chosen. - With the removal of Fearless from the Skull Lord I have these priced at about 160 points (125 point formation + 35 point character)

- Option 1: Give the Chosen 'Fearless' and price at 200-225 points.
The issue that comes from this is that they potentially impose on the Bloodpack formation (less units yet greater distance effect). This may not be that much of an issue and promote a ground based army with an emphasis on Slaughterfeind transports which is not really that bad IMO.

- Option 2 (Incomplete) - Give the Chosen Infiltrate - probably only push the formation up to 175 points and does not really sit well with me. Could also add a Fearless Character which could take them to 200, yet once again, does not get past the initial concern I have. I still have to investigate Infiltrator units in other forces to see what type of units (not mounted) that have this rule.

- Option 3 (Rejected idea for now) - Give them a free Daemonic Pact and a Fearless Character - The free Daemonic Pact is being reserved for the Possessed so I do not wish to cross roles in this respect if I can manage that.

Anyone out there have some alternative ideas, or support any of the above?

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List Frozen till 01 Jan 2011
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:11 am 
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I am going to make an executive decision on this list due to the following:

1. There are no playtests happening for this list
2. There are changes in line with the Black Legion and LatD lists that need to be updated within this list
3. I have further changes to present after 2+ months of insight into the list and design.

So I am going to produce a further update (V3.6) that I will hopefully upload this week.

I have updated the list already and it is going through a proof read first. It is my hope that this will be the version to take us into 2011 as a stable product.

More later. Now is a good time to start offering feedback people

Cheers..... :)

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:24 am 
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Well, I could give you a game at some point if we can syncronise time zones, hard to comment being so rusty with it!


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:23 pm 
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The_Real_Chris wrote:
Well, I could give you a game at some point if we can syncronise time zones, hard to comment being so rusty with it!


At present I am busy with work, life and Epic projects, yet I can take a day off if we organise something and stick to it. :)

Funnily enough TRC, you are the next line of testing once Morgan finishes giving it a good read. You are my 'stress tester' to see if you can break the list. The TRC test is very important to my lists designs :D

Cheers dude

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:59 pm 
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That seems perfectly fluffy/reasonable to me.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Notanoob wrote:
That seems perfectly fluffy/reasonable to me.


Which thing? :P

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:03 pm 
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I gained some feedback so next steps as follows:

- Review lists over again with changes
- Request time off TRC to make some 'horror' 3000 point forces from the list
- Review list again and prepare for new version release
- Release V3.6

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:21 am 
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Completed:
- Feedback received
- List has been reviewed and amended where required

Present status:
- List has been sent to endure the tests of the dreaded TRC


Planned release of this version: this weekend

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:59 am 
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frogbear wrote:
Notanoob wrote:
That seems perfectly fluffy/reasonable to me.


Which thing? :P

I was refering to the Juggers, but somehow my post ended up going on very late.


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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:37 am 
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Excellent.

That was one of the major changes I wanted to do for two reasons:
1. People are used to basing these 2 to a base
2. They are a more attractive buy as INF rather than LV

This upcoming version really concentrated on the 'what is not being taken' camp and finding ways to make them more appealing. In this respect:
- Chosen recieved a boost by being priced accordingly and been given optional Rhinos as part of their costs (yay, Rhinos may actually get used!)
- Possessed were priced appropriately and given a Daemonic Pact - thereby giving Flesh Hounds a reasonable chance at being selected as a summonable daemon
- Terminators dropped in price a little and increased their unit size

I will go through each of the changes in depth when I release the updated version this weekend.

Cheers....

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.4 - List being reviewed prior to Freeze
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:08 am 
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I have been busy renovating a house this weekend so I have not been able to get to this as I would have liked.

Rather than release it now, I would rather not rush it and make sure I give it one last look over before release.

So it probably will not come out before the end of the weekend but I will do my best.

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.6 - List Reviewed and Released
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Hi All

I have just updated the first page with the latest update of the World Eaters - Version 3.6

I believe this is that one step closer to being finalised as a list so I would appreciate any feedback and observations.

A detail of the changes and reasonings are below.

Enjoy!

=====================================

Past change of note
Removal of across-the-board Fearless opened up possibilities for list development and cheaper formations to improve the playability of the list for both player and opponent.


Major Changes:

Skull Lord
Loses Fearless and gains Commander - There were several discussions on why the Skull Lords should not be Fearless, so I decided to bring the role back as commanding leaders who could inspire whole formations to charge into battle.


Auxillary - two may be taken per Berserker Retinue.
This pushes the prevalence of Berserkers. If you stay with mostly Marine forces, then you can have that. If you wish to go outside of the immediate Marine purview, this ensures that the army has at least 1 Berserker retinue without the hard limits that find themselves lacking in higher point games.


2+ Initiative for all Daemon Engines
This allows the list to purchase Daemon Engines a little cheaper with the possibility of less reliability. Overall it fits into the current idea for Khornate formations. It also helps to address the possibility of low activations the Cult lists suffer from. In effect, this force can be seen more as a red wave of units rather than small pockets of expensive units if the player decides to.



Flow on effects:

Berserker retinue
No Change. I feel they are slightly overpriced at 275 points yet undercosted if I took them to 300 points with free optional Rhinos. Going the other way and reducing them to 250 points was not viable either so they shall remain at 275 points for playtests. They are still formidable in Rhinos or the drop (even if they are at a high premium) for their cost.


Bike Retinue
No Change. Nothing to discuss really. They are the same as Chaos bikers. Anyone on a bike is standard unless you are a specialist (queue the White scars)


Terminator Retinue
The loss of a Fearless character allowed me to save 25 points and bring them more in line with what their actual value should be. The restriction of having to buy them in such large numbers (and therefore cost), and the fact that they do not contribute to buying Auxillary more than makes up for any other discrepencies people may find. At the end of the day, this is probably one of the most feared INF formations in the game.


Possessed.
With the loss of a Fearless leader, and the repricing to bring them in line with 'like' units, the drop in points also brought in a free Daemonic Pact to push them to 200 points. With their restriction in upgrades, formation size and inability to contribute to Auxillary purchases, the pricing appears to be spot on for these guys. The addition of the Chaos Pact also makes Flesh Hounds a viable choice for the army now as before they did not make the grade. Overall I am very happy with this formation for now.


Chosen
The pricing on these came out to ~175 points or even less. The addition of the optional Rhinos was three-fold. Firstly it gives Rhinos a chance to be used in a game. Secondly it provides an optional deployment strategy for the cost while not having a sub 200 point formation in the list. Finally it allowed the Slaughterfiends to be reduced in cost as effectively they are replacing a 25 point unit upgrade. Once again, all achieved with the goal of not having to include the sub 200 formation with most of the restrictions of the Possessed thrown in.


Bloodpack / Defiler Engines / Khorne Assault + Support Engines
Reduced by 25 points to account for the repricing of the defilers with a 2+ initiative. Therby bringing their effectiveness into a comparable range and allowing an ease in costings for formations.


Juggernauts of Khorne
Replaced LV with INF and dropped the EA+1 MW for just a plain MW as a base attack. Added Mounted and Walker. These are now more of a viable choice as opposed to the concern over them being LV.


Assault Walkers
Dreadnoughts repriced to 2 for 75 points. The reduced fire range and 'Slow' weapon (albeit a better AT attack) was enough of a restriction to not warrant these at 50 points each. The repricing brings these back as a viable upgrade for Drop formations. Where before it was rare to see a Dreadnought in favour of other upgrades, now it is a thoughtful option. This is probably going to be the most controversial change. I would rather see some lists made up to see how much of an auto choice they will actually be rather than theorising on it. From experience, 75 points (or the extra 25) is huge when you are trying to tune the list.


Transport
Slaugherfiends reduced in cost as explained under Chosen. The reduced cost if taken in a Berserker Retinue (for Khorne Berserkers) is made up for the cost discrepency in that formation as discussed above. At those costs (400+ points), the discount is negligible.



I think I have covered all bases.

:)

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.6 - List Reviewed and Released
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:12 am 
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One aspect of a list design is making sure that you have not overlooked any potential 'killer combos' or allow the list to be played in any other manner of broken ways.

To start this process, I do what I learned from TRC - to start looking at what the cheaper formations do and whether they can be used to mass the opponent.

So without further babbling, here is an attempt to break the list:

3000 points World Eaters v3.6 force
Devastation Class Cruiser - 150
Chosen + Dreadclaws - 250
Chosen + Dreadclaws - 250
Chosen + Dreadclaws - 250
Chosen + Dreadclaws - 250
Chosen + Dreadclaws - 250
Berzerker Retinue - 275 (garrison)
Berzerker Retinue - 275 (garrison)
Khorne Assault Engines - 250
Khorne Assault Engines - 250
Khorne Support Engines - 275
Khorne Support Engines - 275

The immediate goal of this force is to activate the Dev cruiser on Turn 1. With a 4+ Strategy Rating, I figure there is an even chance to winning the Initiative.

1. Depending on the layout of the battlefield, I would either have up to 5 different drop points, or less if I wish to take advantage of the newly acquired Commander ability

2. Once again it will depend whether the initial bombardment hit, or whether the Possessed are in good positions of cover so there are a few ways I could go from here:
a. use a retain (and possibly Commander to charge into formations - 8 Attacks +1 MW) - the Blood Rage should ensure that I do not fail the Charge.
b. double the Khorne Support Engines up to start laying BM on formations (Cannons of Khorne) - probably not the best plan as they may get smashed early on.

3. Double or triple everything up the board in a mad dash for a 2nd round ho-down.

Now this plan really relies on the drop forces doing some real damage whether through winning combats or leaving formations reeling from the assaults. If that plan goes haywire, then the rest of the force is going to get shot up.

I do not see any major issue with the above list. If anything, it could mean for a quick game (to either side) or a long drawn out battle of 'hide and seek' depending on what happened with the Dreadclaws and the turn they all come in.

The lack shooting really hurts this type of a force and the FF values can be easily taken advantage of. Overall, I am not convinced that the above force is in any way an issue.

If you have a differing opinion or force example, please start posting.

I will attempt to get another 3000 point list up at a later time to review it's effectiveness.

Cheers.....

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 Post subject: Re: World Eaters 3.6 - List Reviewed and Released
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:41 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
The immediate goal of this force is to activate the Dev cruiser on Turn 1. With a 4+ Strategy Rating, I figure there is an even chance to winning the Initiative.

I don't have anything specific to say about the list but I would like to mention the rules for spacecraft.

The turn that spacecraft activate on is decided during the set-up phase (4.3.1).

That means that Space Marines will always have the first choice of turn activation.
I guess it's a dice roll off if both armies have the same SR (the rules don't say).
Against Orks, Guard, Necrons etc, you'd always have the first call of which turn you choose.

It'll be interesting to see what TRC comes up with aswell.

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