Tactical Command
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Daemon World List
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=82&t=23785		 Page 9 of 14
Author:  novemberrain [ Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
madd0ct0r wrote:
the chaos alter dosen't have any synergy at the moment - added to a horde it just makes it vulnerable to AT weaponry.

the same is true of things like the skull cannon - and that can't even use it's full 20cm move!


I agree that it is just illogical to add alot of the specialists to the hordes at the moment - although it does open up some fluffy combinations (BLetters and FHounds, PBearers and Nurglings).

How would people feel about having them removed?
Author:  Hulksmash [ Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
First off stoked for the new chariots. Excited to build and try them.

I like the idea of adding things to core units but outside of a few of them I just don't see it being used to often. A lot of it does depend on how you adjust the teleporting. Without the teleporting I think the vehicles have a place in the formations. With it you're better off field specialized formations.

Regarding the support formations maybe this is the place for mixing? Things like fiends and steeds/chariots, or juggers and chariots, or screamers and chariots (recommend equal movement to screamers).
Author:  uberChris [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
I guess Specialists could be left as an option to be added to the Hordes, that way people could get creative with formation builds - it's Chaos after all :) But if I had to choose either to keep them as they are, or allowing Specialists to be listed only as Support, I'd choose the latter. The fluff seems to show lesser Daemons as packs that usually keep to their own kind. Would it be possible to entertain the idea that a single Greater Daemon (no more than 1 per mark/faction and at current cost) could be added to the Upgrades list? I think it would be fun and fluffy to have a GD leading a horde of lessers.
Author:  novemberrain [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
uberChris wrote:
I guess Specialists could be left as an option to be added to the Hordes, that way people could get creative with formation builds - it's Chaos after all :) .


I don't see any pressing need to remove them atm, but I just don't see anyone ever taking them. Perhaps once the points costs of the individual unit are adjusted some will become more useful as upgrades

uberChris wrote:
Would it be possible to entertain the idea that a single Greater Daemon (no more than 1 per mark/faction and at current cost) could be added to the Upgrades list? I think it would be fun and fluffy to have a GD leading a horde of lessers .


I like this idea, and it would be easy to implement. Although it may need a variable cost - Bloodthirsters and Lords of Change pay for wings in their 250pt cost that they will never get to use when attached to a horde...
Author:  Xenocidal Maniac [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
Dude! Where are the Demon Titans? We need a DC6 Mega Bloodthirster! :)
Author:  novemberrain [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Dude! Where are the Demon Titans? We need a DC6 Mega Bloodthirster! :)



There was talk of the list needing a big gribbly a while back on this thread - I dont want to step on the toes of the Chaos titan cult list tho. You can, of course, have three Bloodthirsters in a pack!
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
ohh step away :)

It's not like i've been desperately active as an AC.
Author:  novemberrain [ Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
The exalted Greater Daemons from forge-world may provide a useful way of doing something like this...


I will have a look.
Author:  Hulksmash [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
Been a few months. Not complaining as summer was hella busy for me too but anything happening with this?
Author:  novemberrain [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
List is grinding forward - I have a list of things I want to tinker with, but I am still stuck with regards to the Daemonic Assault rule.

Do we a) ditch it to match new 40k play b) keep it as is (mega-OP from my playtests) or c) tinker with the rule but keep the idea of it?

Otherwise, the Altar is still problematic, but seems fitting re: fluff and style. I would like to keep it, but it needs tweaking so it actually has a role beyond token AA. Suggestions?

Adding a (single) GD to the Core Hordes is simple, though I think a 50pt or so reduction in the cost of the BT and LoC is probably appropriate given they will be stuck with 15cm infantry.

With regards to the "super-big" Greater Daemons, I have been waiting to get my hands on the new FW rules for them from the latest Imperial Armour. With regard to mechanics, I felt it could b worked into the Supreme commander upgrade - pay X points for supreme commander, and then have the choice of paying Y more points, depending on God alignment, in order to upgrade your GD to the "super-big" one. How do people feel?

Of course the points costs for the individual units are also all out of whack, but I want to get the core structure down before tinkering at that kind of scale.

I should be gettign a game in with it soon tho :)
Author:  mordoten [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
Haven't red the discussion. But xan't the altar add Inspiring to the unit it is in? Seems like a fitting thing?
Author:  Hulksmash [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
I say tinker with the daemonic assault. As is is far to powerful. Since the entire daemon army in 40k can still deepstrike maybe just have a limit of "X" number of formations per 1,000 or 1,500 can teleport? That's better than half since right now it's to easy to get enough 4-5 units teleporting in 3k.

I like the idea of a GD upgrade to the units.

I like the idea of the supreme commander big guy.

Agree that currently point values are out of whack. Most seem high but yeah, basic structure first. Then tinkering :)
Author:  novemberrain [ Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
Ok, another update on this.



Changes:
1) I have added in the Daemon Lords - but I still don't have access to the most recent 40k rules for them, so have left the rules out for the moment.
2) Added the ability to put in Supreme Commander
3) I have compressed the Specialist selection
4) added in the ability to add GD's to hordes - 50pt drop for Blood Thirsters and Lord of Changes to offset the effective loss of wings.
5) In the Followers of Chaos section, I have gone to a "any mix of units, minimum formation size of six" to allow more choice / model availability flexibility and to guard against popcorning
6) Biggest change - I have changed the daemonic assault rule to two formations per full thousand points played. I did think of restricting this even further to 1 Support 1 Core per 1000pts. What do people think?

Attachments:
Ghallamore Incursion 3.0.pdf [334.63 KiB]
Downloaded 344 times
Author:  uberChris [ Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
The list looks really good, thank you very much for working on it. I'm very interested in what the "Daemon Lord" upgrade will entail. I think limiting the daemonic assault rule to a 1 to 1 ratio would work well, the 2 to 1 ratio might be too powerful - but we can always play test it. I have built most of the daemon options for this list, so I will try to get in some games this winter.

I would like to suggest that all Daemonic Heralds be given the "Leader" ability to reflect their position of honor/authority in the fluff and to balance out the penalties of daemonic instability combined with activating on a 2+.

I noticed that the Soulgrinder has a movement of 15cm, while the Chaos Defiler has a 20cm move. They both use the same chassis and are both piloted by a daemon - shouldn't the Soulgrinder's speed be upped to 20cm?

I also noticed that Plague Zombies are still listed on the unit stats sheet.

Thanks again for working on this list!
Author:  novemberrain [ Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Daemon World List
uberChris wrote:
The list looks really good, thank you very much for working on it. I'm very interested in what the "Daemon Lord" upgrade will entail. I think limiting the daemonic assault rule to a 1 to 1 ratio would work well, the 2 to 1 ratio might be too powerful - but we can always play test it. I have built most of the daemon options for this list, so I will try to get in some games this winter.

I would like to suggest that all Daemonic Heralds be given the "Leader" ability to reflect their position of honor/authority in the fluff and to balance out the penalties of daemonic instability combined with activating on a 2+.

I noticed that the Soulgrinder has a movement of 15cm, while the Chaos Defiler has a 20cm move. They both use the same chassis and are both piloted by a daemon - shouldn't the Soulgrinder's speed be upped to 20cm?

I also noticed that Plague Zombies are still listed on the unit stats sheet.

Thanks again for working on this list!


Hi Chris,

Thanks for commenting - always a good thing :D
I want to get at least a quick game in with the changes before adding any more, but I'll give you my thoughts for now.

1) The Daemon Lord upgrade was an attempt to bulk out the options of the list slightly, and to represent the kind of exalted Greater Daemons currently produced by forgeworld - old, exceptionally powerful daemons. I was thinking possibly DC6 with god-appropriate abilities. It would give the list something big, chunky ad dangerous, but with the down side that is likely to be BTS AND SC.

2) With Daemonic assault, I want to have a couple of trial games, just little ones, to see how it feels both as the daemon player and as the opponent. I am still open to tinkering with it - I want to keep it as I think it adds to the flavour, but I see it being a nightmare to balance.

3) Leader seems a sensible addition - possible points bump, but that can be taken into account once I get around to sorting out ALL the points costs than need work.

4) Good spot - Souldgrinder will go to 20cm in the next update

5) and another good spot - will be deleted
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