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EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines
Honda	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:21 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	I will be playing a 2700 point battle tonight against Space Marines (Rainbow Warriors). I will be fielding: 1 x Regimental HQ, + 2 ?x Mortar units 2 x Storm Trooper companies 3 x Drop Troop companies + 2 x Hardened Veterans 1 x Drop Sentinel Multi-Melta version 2 x Vulture squadrons I will be testing the Iron Discipline special rule. if we add air, then I will drop one Vulture and add two Lighting Interceptor squadrons (2 x two aircraft). I don't know what the Space Marine will be taking, but have heard talk of Terminators, Thunderhawks, Tacticals and Dreadnoughts. So, this could be a pretty interesting match up. Note: I will not be taking any of the Support Sentinels _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:14 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	Good overall list - which units have Valyries - if any (I'm too lazy to figure the points to determine what did and didn't have Valkyries). You'll get a good feel for the standard companies with that list - I can't imagine myself using that many companies - I'd probably end up with a Reg HQ, Storm Troopers, and 2 Drop Companies in a standard list - then add in toys to each, plus support to get me 2700 points.  I think it will be a good brawl.
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Tactica	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:51 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	CosmS, Don't want to speak for honda, but if I had to guess, he's not building this list v the marines for knock-out power, but to run an excersize on how the formations are working together and how the core of the list is dealing with threats in common play. If I had to guess, this game is meant for a learning excersize as much as a pick up game for bat rep. Thus, I would guess that Honda has a few pre conceived expectations about how the list will operate - depending upon what the opponent brings. Should be a good report either way. I'm looking forward to it. Let's just hope  'the marines' don't give the Elysians too much trouble with their core operating design. Let's also hope that the rapid strike element of the Elysians are able to neutralize a bit of the marine's 'strike' capabilities they are known for. Too many marines in the reserve waiting to teleport/strike in could really be a bad thing for us though - so should be fun to see it unfold. _________________ Rob
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Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:01 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	One thing I would like to see if people post a bat rep report for playtesting purposes - what are you designing the list to playtest - i.e. what aspect or two are we trying to analyze, if any?
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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:55 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Are the space marines deploying from there ship the rainbow warrior? _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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jfrazell	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:31 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm Posts: 144	Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 23 Mar. 2006 (02:55)) Are the space marines deploying from there ship the rainbow warrior? Yes, unless they  see divers with French accents nearby of course. It was an interesting game.  I'm sure Honda will pop up shortly with a description. The marine player foolishly listened to some eldar advice in turn three, not realizing its all part of the eldar plan to make him averse to FFing   _________________ "Advance to the Rear!"
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Black Metallic	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:15 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:52 am Posts: 4	My List: Tactical Detachment  x2 Hunter Commander                 Vindicators Predators (2 of each) Thunderhawk Terminators (x2) Other than an ugly turn 1 (rockets... I hate me some rockets!), things went pretty well.  As John mentioned above, I did listen to some Eldar advice (which wasn't horrible honestly), and could have done some things differently, and might have brought the finishing score to 2-1 rather than the 3-1 it was.   I need more thunderhawks
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Honda	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:05 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Ok, I didn?t have time to create a map yet, so I?ll try to post one this weekend. Brett (a great guy to play against, pretty savvy 40K player) fielded one of those SM lists that can give you fits: 2 x Tactical formations + Hunter + Commander 1 x Predator formation, 2 each of Destructor/Annihilator 1 x Vindicator formation 1 x Thunderhawk 2 x Terminators So a good mix of units, especially for someone who was playing in their first full game. He did do his homework by reading up on all the Elysian posts. I should also mention that his original list had 4 x Thunderbolts and 2 Marauders in it, but I convinced him that we ought to leave the aerospace units for another time. Also, he?s already looking at a potential 5 Thunderhawks in his next list. On Brett?s part, I believe he was looking to see how all the different units functioned together and how his list might change in future games. I was looking to continue testing how the basic drop companies performed, along with adding the Multi-melta Sentinel and the Mortars. I?m not sure I knew what I was going to do with the mortars, but sometimes you don?t figure that out until you need something and you grab the first thing that?s handy. Rather than describe a play by play as I don?t have the map yet, I?ll go over some of the significant events in each turn. I deployed both Storm Trooper companies, both Vulture squadrons and that?s it. Brett deployed everything except the Thunderhawk and the two Terminator formations. In general, Brett had the Vindicators on my right, the Predators on my left, and the two tactical formations in the center. I on the other hand had a Storm Trooper company and Vulture squadron on each flank, with nothing in the center. Turn One Neither of us teleported any units in. I suspect the ?One trick pony? Vulture play will get pulled on all first time opponents of the Elysians, or those who are not familiar with the IG list. Brett placed his Predators out in the open and the Vultures on that side ensured that they would not have an impact on the rest of the game. I hate doing that to someone, but it is a lesson that never needs repeating. The response was the moving of the Vindicators behind LoF terrain. I moved the right most Vultures and Storm troopers up the flank, with the goal of moving being able to influence action around the objectives on that side of the board. I also moved the Storm trooper company up and near the center of the table, which prompted the Thunderhawk to swoop out of the sky and drop a Valkyrie and one ST unit. Turn Two - The ?Drop? Turn Brett put one Terminator formation on his Blitzkrieg and one on mine. It was difficult to restrain my level of enthusiasm. I ended up placing one drop troop company (DTC) near my Blitz, but oriented towards an open area where I expected his tacticals to advance. I then put one DTC on the SM objective on the right, the Regimental HQ in some buildings directly in front of the SM Blitz, another DTC in buildings to the left of the RHQ, and the Sentinels to the left, but close to the RHQ and the Terminators. So we rolled to see who goes first, but the outcome was never in doubt. So while the Rainbow Warriors were conferring with Eldar advisors, I tried to figure out what I was going to do with those terminators. The Terminators decided to FF the Sentinels, wiping them out, however, the Sentinels dropped 3 out of the four terminators and I thought that was a pretty good exchange. In one of those 20/20 hindsight things, Brett realized that he probably should have activated his Thunderhawk and shot up the Sentinels (more than likely breaking them) and then retained with the Terminators to try and knock off the Regimental HQ in front of their position. Oh well, live and learn. On the left, the Rainbow Warriors tactical units advance toward the DTC in a woods and start shooting the crap out of them. This draws Vulture and Storm trooper support from me and the end result is that I break the rightmost tactical. On the right, the Vindicators are harried by Vultures and eventually break. Turn Three - The ?Money? Turn The Rainbow Warriors continue their trend of doing whatever they want, whenever they want to, and advance the Terminator formation on my Blitz just enough into the woods to make toothpicks out of the woods with their assault cannons and break the DTC. The DTC decides to emulate Elmer Fudd (?Shush, be verwy, verwy, qwiet?) and move around the Terminators, back to my Blitz. I?m hoping they rally at the end and allow me to contest that objective. On the left, I shoot at the broken Tactical formation until all the units are dead. Then I shoot them a little more just to be sure. However, the remaining tactical unit fires away in a blaze of glory and breaks the Storm trooper company, leaving 3 Valkyries and 3 infantry stands. I move them over to the leftmost objective on my side in the hopes that they will rally. Near Brett?s Blitz, I shoot the Hardened Veterans from the leftmost DTC (Sniper) at the remaining terminator unit and break them. It is then my intention to assault them with the Regimental HQ. The RHQ isn?t sure what I mean. So I tell them again (SC re-roll), but they still don?t get it, so they fire ineffectually at the guys as big as an earthmover and do nothing. The Storm trooper company on the right moves up to shoot at the Vindicators (who are broken) and wipe them out. I attempt to rally guys, but they don?t get it. When we tally up the victory conditions, I have scored against the Rainbow Warriors Blitz, Break Their Spirit, and Capture the Flag. Against me is my Blitz, so 3 to 1 to the Elysians. Although I?m not sure the score indicates it, the game was very close and if not for a couple plays taken another direction, I think I would have been hard pressed to pull out a win. Those Terminators are quite brutal?at least the ones that don?t have Eldar advisors attached. After Action Report I was fairly happy with how the basic DTC operated. I think the MM Sentinels are an extremely welcome addition to the list. The mortars didn?t add that much value to my RHQ fire and I think we?ll need to see how they fit into the plan as it?s not obvious to me at this point. In this game, I might have been better served by the Support section. You will notice that there is very little mention of the demo charge effects, and nothing at all about Iron Discipline. In the case of the former, I decided to not initiate heavy HtH fighting with the marines unless absolutely necessary (although I did try around Brett?s Blitz and did not get to engage) and in the latter the rule was so new to me that it never made it to my radar screen. So, an interesting data point for certain. I thoroughly enjoyed the game and would play against Brett anytime and highly recommend him as an opponent. I look forward to having air assets available to integrate with operations because it was quite annoying to be watching the Thunderhawk fly where ever it wanted to because the Elysian do not have any ground AA assets, which is going to be challenging to say the least, and as it should be. Great game Brett! _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:47 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London

The DTC decides to emulate Elmer Fudd (?Shush, be verwy, verwy, qwiet?) and move around the Terminators, back to my Blitz. I?m hoping they rally at the end and allow me to contest that objective. Note in the turn you rally you can't contest/take objectives. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x

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jfrazell	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm Posts: 144	We noted that.  At game end there were two objectives (Blitz) and a side one that had broken units, including a broken termie unit (wo!) _________________ "Advance to the Rear!"
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Honda	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:38 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	As John pointed out, that was something that we had not been playing correctly until recently. My reasoning for making that move is that if there wasn't a clear winner by Turn 3, I wanted to make sure that there were more targets near objectives, that I wanted, than the Space Marines would be able to deal with. So, it was a Turn 4 play. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 2:49 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	Wow, sounds like a good game. I'm glad to see the list is shaping up well in terms of balance and power.  Seems a lot of the other lists that people propose initially have to be scaled back - but I think we've done a very good job at restricting ourselves - and not throwing too much power into the list (kind of hard when you're so passionate about it - you want them to be good). Great to hear another successful playtesting game.  I would at some point like to get an experienced opponents opinon of the list on the board - just because I like to hear what people not involved in the developement of the list think - sometimes they see things we don't - especially ways to abuse the list, other people always seem to be good at that.
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Honda

Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:22 am

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I would at some point like to get an experienced opponents opinon of the list on the board - just because I like to hear what people not involved in the developement of the list think - sometimes they see things we don't - especially ways to abuse the list, other people always seem to be good at that. I am hoping that once the aircraft are in the main list that TRC will begin to give it a little more attention. He has a way of looking at things that is nearly ideal for stress testing a list. He's very good a shifting the paradigm and causing others to look from a different vantage point. Also, Tactica is quite experienced and...well your right, he'll be "dating" her, so I don't know if we can expect him to be that objective.   _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Tactica

Post subject: EDT BATREP: Elysians vs. Space Marines Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:25 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Quote (Honda @ 23 Mar. 2006 (12:05)) I suspect the ?One trick pony? Vulture play will get pulled on all first time opponents of the Elysians, or those who are not familiar with the IG list. Brett placed his Predators out in the open and the Vultures on that side ensured that they would not have an impact on the rest of the game. I hate doing that to someone, but it is a lesson that never needs repeating. There's a proverbial iron fist / tough love joke here somewhere... Brett put one Terminator formation on his Blitzkrieg and one on mine.  It was difficult to restrain my level of enthusiasm.

... and I cringe. Termy's should always be used to wipe out something with the Marines high init - they are next to guaranteed damage if not formation annihilation.



So we rolled to see who goes first, but the outcome was never in doubt. So while the Rainbow Warriors were conferring with Eldar advisors,

...medling gits...

The Terminators decided to FF the Sentinels, wiping them out,
Why not get in btb? Sentinels (like all IG) FF much better than they CC.

however, the Sentinels dropped 3 out of the four terminators and I thought that was a pretty good exchange.


Tactica casts SUMMON DICE on Brett

In one of those 20/20 hindsight things, Brett realized that he probably should have activated his Thunderhawk and shot up the Sentinels (more than likely breaking them) and then retained with the Terminators to try and knock off the Regimental HQ in front of their position. Oh well, live and learn.
I don't know the exact situation, but 'teleporting termys' + Strategy 5 + going first should equal = base to base sentinels that all died.

Unless my ... err... 'math by proxy' is wrong here, 3 terminators should not have died in this exchange. There must have been a tactical oops, really bad dice, or both for these results to occur. Maybe there was a terrible amount of supporting fire or something... fully admit that I don't know the details here - but something sounds 'fishy'.




It is then my intention to assault them with the Regimental HQ. The RHQ isn?t sure what I mean. So I tell them again (SC re-roll), but they still don?t get it, so they fire ineffectually at the guys as big as an earthmover and do nothing.

LOL - gota love the beacracy in the IG, the procrastination of the RnF, and the obstinance of the most veteren of officers... even affects the most elite of fighting elements. Welcome to the Imperial Guard Political Turmoil. (see Strategy rating 2 for further details)



I attempt to rally guys, but they don?t get it.

They got it, they were just 'filibustering' until you became distracted with something else. (see US Senate for further details)



Those Terminators are quite brutal?at least the ones that don?t have Eldar advisors attached.

ROFLMAO!



You will notice that there is very little mention of the demo charge effects, and nothing at all about Iron Discipline. In the case of the former, [Demo Charge] I decided to not initiate heavy HtH fighting with the marines unless absolutely necessary

Exactly why I think it should be FF. Enemy's that are good at combat, are great at CC base to base. The 'thrown' effects of the gernade are lost in a CC stat vs. a FF stat. IG don't like to get to grips and stay as far back as possible.

and in the latter [Iron Discipline] the rule was so new to me that it never made it to my radar screen.

[quote]

I look forward to having air assets available to integrate with operations because it was quite annoying to be watching the Thunderhawk fly where ever it wanted to because the Elysian do not have any ground AA assets, which is going to be challenging to say the least, and as it should be.

Agreed - Elysians should rely upon their own aircraft heavily for this function. Very good point indeed. The Elysian aircraft should be a linch pin as it regards to the potential for success if the enemy has dug in beyond LOF artillery assets, long range assets deep behind enemy lines, air power of their own, a significant amount of armor, or big nasty SHT / Titans.

Cheers for the batrep, I enjoyed it,