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BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts

 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:28 pm 
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Quote (Honda @ 21 Feb. 2006 (11:48))


Ok, the Elysians don?t have anything left to teleport in so off we go to the strategy roll.  Two sixes are rolled so the Orks go first. Not good for the Big E.

The big mob rolls a 1 to engage, but that is enough, so they pile into the Regimental HQ, all nicely lined up like they are on parade. The Orks hit hard and dish out 9 hits (eight of which are MW), to the Elysians 4 hits. The Orks end up with 15 (roll 5 +10) to the Elysians 11 (roll 6 +5) and in the ensuing pursuit, the RHQ are wiped out. The Orks consolidate back to the bridge and are now 17 strong.

The Orks then attempt to sustain on Stormtrooper-1 with the Gunz mob and roll a 6. More good news. After the smoke has cleared, Stormtrooper-1 is completely wiped out.



Oh how it hurts to lose the strategy roll when you shoot but don't fight - and the enemy is on your door step err... bridge. (and so are you!) :)


The Elysians are now in critical condition. In an attempt to exact some measure of revenge, the Vultures activate and single over to the ?Uge mob and shoot, causing two kills (now 15 strong) after saves and placing three blast markers (8 total).

The Stompas double up the road and position themselves for a possible fifth turn.

Hah! well - I was wondering if they were every going to join the fray... turn 5... LOL, well, better late than never I suppose! :)


The Elysians get vindictive and decide to break the ?Uge mob. Drop-1 singles up closer to the mob and gets 1 kill and places two BM (14 strong, 9 BM).

The Orks double the remnants of Blitz-2 over to the bridge. The rest of the moves are now the Elysians.

The single Thunderbolt activates and kills 1 and places two BM (13 strong, 10 BM). The second Thunderbolt squadron activates and kills 1 and places two BM (12 strong, 12 BM), breaking the unit. However, as it appears that there won?t be any ground units to close within 15cm or 30cm when rallying is checked, the ?Uge mob decides to stay on the bridge.

Hmm... too little too late appearently. Attrition took its toll.

All that is left for the Elysians now is to see if they can remove the last two bikes in the Bike mob. They roll a definitive ONE and do not activate. Since my Supreme Commander was eliminated, I do not get to reroll.

The bikes do not rally, but everything else does on the Ork side.

LOL - hello/goodbye bridge. :/


After Action Report

Final Results


Well, very interesting. I liked how the Elysians felt on the field. They are obviously fairly fragile, as I would expect of an airborne/airmobile force.

Definitely do not appear to be a hold the line force from this battle because of lot of their 'tricks' are one shot. Disrupt weapons, vulture rockets, dropping in via teleport... all are basically one use / one shot.

The air support might help a bit once worked out. Although the feel looks right, Even WWII paratroopers were expected to be able to hold the line and take key objectives long enough for the big guns and main supplies to make it in so one would expect attrition to take its toll, but not so much that they can't stand a 4 turn game situation with proper play, tactics, and execution. (not to mention some cooperation from dice god DORK) ;)


Game snafu?s aside, I think I got a reasonable result from the fight. The Elysians are well and truly spent, though it was fairly close there at the end. Not getting to go first on the last turn, thus causing the death of the Regimental HQ was painful. Also the Gunz wiping out the Stormtrooper unit hurt as well.

I think turn 2 had a lot to do with the Elysian's performance. Going first on that turn after drop in could have been big.


However, with those two units, I felt like I had enough stuff left over to take the big mob on and possible hold the bridge, so vagaries of the dice aside, I think the Elysians had a chance to win and that is what I wanted to find out.

I definitely don't think you have a problem there. One does wonder if the Stompas were utilized to their best ability, and how much more/less impacted you both would have been had you had some aircraft... but I have to say - the formations felt right in reading the flow of things.

One of the things I want to test out is whether or not the Elysians Strategy should be +3. The fluff reasoning behind this is that they are a cut above regular IG and in the Taros campaign, did strike where the Tau did not expect, even though the Tau had done a fairly good job of anticipating what the IG ground forces were going to do. So perhaps it might be justified.

I?d be interested in what others think.

Strategy bumps will mean big things to an all teleport force.

IG, due to all the political turmoil, the fear of commissars, the miscommunications and massive amounts of beuracracy are riddled with planning and tactical execution issues. Even when you get down to the grunt level, the formations of 'elites' are storm troopers are not meant to live past their first engagement as a full unit. The life span of a new recruit on Valhalla is 10 minutes. Storm troopers die in troves - read some of commissar cain's books... the Ice caves (book 3 I think) goes in great detail about the life expectancy of Storm troopers. I think 1 lived out of a unit of 10 by the time they ended a single engagement - and they are the elites.

As much as I'd like to see it, strategy 3 might be a stretch due to - an all teleport army and 2 - due to background.

If you can make strat 2 work here - that would be 'my' target personally if I were you.

Anyway, it was fun and I?ll do another one of these before too long, but as I am about to start building the Elysians, I don?t know if the next map exercise will come before or after a real game.

Also, I?d be interested in what opponent others think the next exercise should be against.

Cheers,

BL or Eldar.

Both are going newer armies that might be a good measure for elisyans. Eldar require a mastery of their special rules to really play them effectively as the devil is in the details here.

BL are just solid and will deliver some serious armor and some serious combat. This may be an ugly one.

I'd really like to see you test out against the bugs at some point, but I think their list - and yours are too new at this point. In time though, this will also be a very good measure. Rapid strike vs. Spawn... and spawn... and spawn... Attrition will be their friend and your enemy.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:00 am 
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Anti-air sidebar w/Tactica


CAP puts you at a negative in the current system.


I guess it can be a negative, it can also be a spacer that delays needing to make a move until the opponent commits to an action. However, what I would primarily be concerned over is that if you never have a unit on CAP, then you are unable to prevent someone from performing a ground attack on you, unless your AA is really good...which I have been less than impressed by to date.


Player-IG with Thunderbolts on CAP.

Player-BL takes notice of his own FLAK formation umbrellas. He notices how close the Thunderbolts will need to get in order to get their AA shots in range of the helltallons.

Player-BL activates with Helltallons for ground attack vs. IG formation Regimental HQ. He position's his approach and makes sure he keeps his BL Helltallons in such a way that the Thunderbolts will have to enter the Chaos Flak umbrella of 3 shot Obliterator ground formations! The Helltallons do not fire after they've finished their approach...

Player IG with thunderbolts now says "CAP!" and approaches for intercept due to CAP, but does not fire...

Now, plane movement - resolve, last in, first out...

The IG plane was the last thing to move... so it is dealt with FIRST (Thank you CAP)...

1) BL ground flak fires at the Thunderbolts with AA.

IF the Thunderbolts survived...

2) BL Helltallon now fires at the Thunderbolts with AA.

Now - the IG response...

3) IG Flak fires at the Helltalons

Again, if the Helltallons survived (and their are still Thunderbolts around...)

4) Thunderbolts CAP attack on the Helltallons

Again, if the Helltallons still survived...

5) Helltallons ground attack vs. the Regimental HQ.

In disengagement, both can again be shot down.

You'll notice it was the BL player that controlled the field though. It was not the CAP player that controlled the field.

The Black Legion player can be very coy about how he sets up his AA and then ground assault causing the CAP to trigger.

Therefore, CAP is a very bad proposition in many if not MOST cases.

That's my take anyway Honda,


Ok, I didn't realize that someone performing a ground attack also got to use their AA, I thought it was an either/or kind of thing.

So you'd have to stay out of their forward arc of fire so that they don't shoot at you (Helltalons), but I understand what you're saying, so I'll think about this a little more.

At the point where our group is, we have not faced a plethora of AA as of yet, so I don't quite see the "umbrella" that you speak of...yet.

Anyway, I'll look into this more...

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:02 am 
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Strategy bumps will mean big things to an all teleport force.

IG, due to all the political turmoil, the fear of commissars, the miscommunications and massive amounts of beuracracy are riddled with planning and tactical execution issues. Even when you get down to the grunt level, the formations of 'elites' are storm troopers are not meant to live past their first engagement as a full unit. The life span of a new recruit on Valhalla is 10 minutes. Storm troopers die in troves - read some of commissar cain's books... the Ice caves (book 3 I think) goes in great detail about the life expectancy of Storm troopers. I think 1 lived out of a unit of 10 by the time they ended a single engagement - and they are the elites.

As much as I'd like to see it, strategy 3 might be a stretch due to - an all teleport army and 2 - due to background.

If you can make strat 2 work here - that would be 'my' target personally if I were you.


Got it. I'll leave it as is...

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:06 pm 
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I definitely don't think you have a problem there. One does wonder if the Stompas were utilized to their best ability, and how much more/less impacted you both would have been had you had some aircraft... but I have to say - the formations felt right in reading the flow of things.


One of the things that gets removed when you play against yourself is the element of surprise. One of the reasons I didn't move the Stompa's up front early is that I was fairly confident that what was up there could handle the Elysians (although in hindsight, that may have been a little assumptive), and that if the Ork Blitz objective was open, I'd drop one of the troops on it.

So against someone else, they may have wanted to push the Stompas across the bridge early, which if I played the scenario again I might as well, but then that might have left them a little more stretched out on the road and leave the Blitz open.

As the Ork player, things I would have done differently is get everyone on the road and tripled up the road and started fighting "ala Russian" deep into the Elysian side of the board.

That might have meant getting the Stompas on the bridge to hold it and leave the mobs to cordon and assault around them. Hard to say, but definitely a fun scenario to play again, which I'll offer to our Ork player once I get my Elysians painted.

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:46 pm 
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@Honda,

I'm quite fond of the scenerio and armies used myself. It think its quite interesting. Its not necessarily a test of either army in a GT scenerio - but that's exactly what appeals to me. The modified nature.

The orks must take the bridge at all costs - so the objectives only matter as a tertiary concern.

The road offers the Orks a means to quickly retake 'objective grab' the blitz if necessary.

The only 'problem' I have with the scenerio is that a player could 'game' it a bit on the Elysian side - *IF* I understood the scenerio correctly. That being - my understanding is the Elysians only needed to 'contest' the bridge, they didn't need to hold it. So, the Elysians could have manouvred for third turn and picked on the edges of the ork lines - forcing him to spread out and deal with the 'other' objectives. Then, on a turn 3/4 manouvre, the Elysians could have performed 'land grab' all over the place. As a 'last' activation, they could have 'contested' the bridge. The orks may not have been able to deal with such a tactic.

I would adopt the scenerio for test myself if I coudl work out the 'required' nature of the bridge.

It might be interesting to say something a bit different about the bridge. Perhaps if the bridge was an objective in itself, but only if measured by the following.

You had to control it by the end of turn 3 and you had to do it with a foramtion that was on the bridge and remained unbroken by the end of a previous turn. "control" could be measured as soon as someone achieved the above in turns 2 or 3 ONLY.

So that it could offer EITHER side objective points if they could solely 'control' the bridge by the end of turn 2 or turn 3, but only with a unit that had spent some time there - and remained unbroken.

Make sense?

Then again - maybe I completely misunderstood the role of the bridge originally - LOL :p

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:30 pm 
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@Hena

Thanx for digging that up. So by accident, I did play it correctly.

Which continues my string of "tis far better to be lucky than good" events.  :/

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 23 Feb. 2006 (05:27))
Btw, dptdexys and Tactica. I just dug up the Epic Armageddon FAQ v2 and I quote.

Epic Armageddon FAQ said
1.12.5
Q: In an Assault, can you allocate hits to units in a formation that are not
within 15cm of an enemy unit?
A: No. Hits in an Assault can only be allocated to units that are within 15cm
of an enemy unit.

Thats assault hits not combat resolution hits .

check this post (jervis' reply is the fifth post)
http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic....ID=6661

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:40 pm 
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@dptdexys,

Good call - was looking for it the other day and couldn't find it.

Good to know I wasn't losing my mind.


@Hena,

Good point, it should be in the FAQ. You should post dptdexy's link over in the SG forum and see what gives.


@Honda - "LOL - nope, you blew it!"  :p

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:39 am 
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@Hena,

I knew I read a newer version of this... its in the 'latest' yet to be added to the 'online' FAQ in the specialist-games forum:

LINK look about midway down the page LINK

1.12.8 Loser Withdraws

Q: In section 1.12.8 it states In addition, the losing formation suffers a number of extra hits equal to the difference between the two sides' results score. Do these hits apply to only those units that were within 15cm of an enemy or are they applied to any unit in the losing formation?

A: The hits are applied to any unit in the losing formation and not just those that were within 15cm of an enemy. Assume that the units within 15cms get hacked down and those further away dissolve into a panic striken rout.


So... its on its way to making it into the FAQ and is at least in the official FAQ log of entries to be added to the FAQ,

Cheers,

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:48 am 
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Honda> With regards to forces to test against, I'd stick with the 3 in the main rulebook, and possibly those in Swordwind for these exercises. I definately wouldn't look at playtest lists yet, no matter how far through testing they are.

The rulebook lists are your "benchmark" and are the ones that should be tested against most frequently, especially when you start writing a list.

As such, I'd suggest either testing against SM, or possibly against Steel LEgion IG - either of which will offer you different challanges than the standard Ork list.

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:33 pm 
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We can arrange that Honda.  I have 2300 points +ogryns/snipers glued up to begin playtesting. Or inversely I can run a straight Biel tan list against your forces.

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 Post subject: BATREP: Elysians vs. Orks, 2700 pts
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:45 pm 
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We can arrange that Honda.  I have 2300 points +ogryns/snipers glued up to begin playtesting. Or inversely I can run a straight Biel tan list against your forces


As I am good to go for this Wednesday, why don't you see what kind of Biel Tan list you can put together.

Shoot for 3000 points, no aircraft.

Does that sound good?

@Dysartes

Thanx for your feedback. I'll use the big three + SW for primary testing.

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